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Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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AstusAleator
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Post by AstusAleator » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:01 pm

We're not going to get into a creation/evolution debate here, but I want to make one comment.

The bible states that God created one man and one woman, and that all humans came from those. Now we see populations of humans across the globe with dramatically different phenotypes (asian, black, white, etc). So since god only made one "type" of human, how did all these other varations come into existence if humans aren't effected by evolution?

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Post by mith » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:51 pm

I had to study that last semester, polygenist vs. monogenist.
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Post by arian » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:42 am

If you would read in Biology books the diversity between race and species you can ubdestand it. The individs can mate each otehr and their offsprings can be productable, se they an have their offsprings too. So the number of chromosomes between the races of human that are on earth is the same number. But we can not mate to the gorrillas who seems to be our grandgrand parents (Thank God not). The races diversed after the world climate changed after the Noah's Flood. So when the clime changed the humans who populated the changed earth found themselves in differend areas and clime. They survived and now we have this human map today. It is the same on those areas where malaria has threated the population and on those areas we can find the highest percentage of anemia falciforme. Becasue of the sin we are facing those problems and tragedies on earth now.

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Post by arian » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:42 am

If you would read in Biology books the diversity between race and species you can ubdestand it. The individs can mate each otehr and their offsprings can be productable, se they an have their offsprings too. So the number of chromosomes between the races of human that are on earth is the same number. But we can not mate to the gorrillas who seems to be our grandgrand parents (Thank God not). The races diversed after the world climate changed after the Noah's Flood. So when the clime changed the humans who populated the changed earth found themselves in differend areas and clime. They survived and now we have this human map today. It is the same on those areas where malaria has threated the population and on those areas we can find the highest percentage of anemia falciforme. Becasue of the sin we are facing those problems and tragedies on earth now.

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Post by AstusAleator » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:24 am

arian wrote:...AS I was reading your thoughts and opinions on the forum I wonder do you know that we as human beings are out of the Evolution rules and this is becasue God crreated us in this way. The Bible tells us so. He created man and women...


Human beings are obviously NOT out of the "evolution rules" as we can see specific signs of speciation among them.

I understand that you are making the argument (similar to Linns) that we may diversify within our "type" (or as you put it chromosome number) but we have not evolved from a different "type" of animal, nor will we evolve into another "type."

So this is the point where in previous evolution/creation debates where we've found it necessary to distinguish between macro and micro evolution. The former being the largescale change of organisms from one "type" to another, while the latter includes speciation and adaptation within the range of species/subspecies.

So now, I re-assert that despite your claim that a Creator made us all X-amount of years ago (an argument that will not be debated here) humans are not "out of the rules of evolution" as we can see specific signs of speciation among the various indiginous populations across earth. EVEN IF they were created x-amount of years ago, they are still subject to the rules of evolution.

arian wrote:If you would read in Biology books the diversity between race and species you can ubdestand it.


While anthropologists and sociologists debate that there are no "races" as that would imply evolutionary superiority/insuperiority to less educated members of society, scientists still recognize that the major races on earth are essentially sub-species of homo-sapiens. In fact, race is just another word for sub-species.

In conclusion I think you are underestimating our knowledge of evolution and/or creation, or perhaps you are overestimating your own. Obviously there is a language barrier here as well.

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Post by arian » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:27 pm

Sorry AstusAleator! I am not over or understimate to any one knowledges aout Biology and any other subject. But as was wondering what is the conpcet of race and species, becasuse diffrents schols ahve different opinions. I am from an ex-communist country (Albania) during my all life school i was indroctinated by the theory of Communism that the human beings are overstimated and they comes from the monkey... so according to the Thesarus the meaning race is : to people; a group of common ancestry, distinguished from others by physical charachteristics, such hair type, colour of skin, stature etc.
to animals: a group of animals or plants having common charachterisitcs that distinguish them from other memers of the same species usually forming a geographically isolated group; subspecies.

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Post by AstusAleator » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:53 pm

As far as science is concerned, humans are animals.
The purported difference between humans and animals comes into play in different fields of study such as anthropology, sociology etc.
What did the parasitic Candiru fish say when it finally found a host? - - "Urethra!!"

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Post by mith » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:18 pm

Race is being redefined, but it's more of a social studies term than biological.
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Post by Locus » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:47 am

Sience ending were beliving starting... so if at the discussion about evolution of humans therms like "bible" or "god" is used disscution become meanless.
Arian, I am originally from "postcommunist" country to, but it is very BAD way to disscuese about humans and evolution under light of politic and religion - for sientifik discussion those think must be separated as absolutly as possible.
Evolution will arrange everything

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Post by arian » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:11 am

Locus! we as scientist must see things under the true light and in the right way. I have been study evolution for one year as we say in my country under "the microscope light" means in details. Unfortunately the evolution does not convince me that the Human Beings have been under the evolution forces. There are some thought or rules that looks like evolution theory (forces) but at the End there is a Creator who can do that. In fact the Bible says: God created the universe in six days but it does not mean that those six days were 24-hours long term or thousend years long term, it says that the evening came and down came this is the first day....

I have seen the evolution under the communism point of view but also under the western thoughts pont of view but they are just coming around only to escape the theory of Creation.

So, accoridng to me, there is a Creator and later on I gove more details about that.

I am enjoying the debate here and I respect all of your thoughts and opinions. They are very professional. We can still continue on this subject.

thank you

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Post by Locus » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:03 pm

arian wrote:Locus! we as scientist must see things under the true light and in the right way. I have been study evolution for one year as we say in my country under "the microscope light" means in details.

I have not learned evolution at this level - what I leaned at the school was not sierios? and what was at the university - was more "evolutionary stories" and not evolution as theory really. So almost all what I know about evolution I learned by mayself.
arian wrote:Unfortunately the evolution does not convince me that the Human Beings have been under the evolution forces. There are some thought or rules that looks like evolution theory (forces)

Why not? Which problems you see with forces? Also, thre is fraction of neutral evolution also. And it is extremly diffecalt to find forses of evolution exactly by looking postfuctum at the organisms - becouse we already have no exacly sequence of mutations that took place at the evolution process - so forces at the each step unknown.
arian wrote:but at the End there is a Creator who can do that. In fact the Bible says: God created the universe in six days but it does not mean that those six days were 24-hours long term or thousend years long term, it says that the evening came and down came this is the first day....
arian wrote:Creator can do all thinks - so if we will take it into account we will lost sience at all - for what? If there is creator why we must think about why sun is shining or such thinks?
arian wrote:I have seen the evolution under the communism point of view but also under the western thoughts pont of view but they are just coming around only to escape the theory of Creation.

It is very hard to talk about "theory of creation" becouse there is only 11 lines about exatly creation of organisms. Also, there is simply written "create humans" and may from ather organism, why not? And there is not written that Hi create each organism separatly. so, it is very poor explanation of the process.
Evolution will arrange everything

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Post by arian » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:39 am

so the evolution will not arrange everything but God can do that.

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