A2 nitrogen fixation + denitrification

Discussion of the distribution and abundance of living organisms and how these properties are affected by interactions between the organisms and their environment

Moderators: honeev, Leonid, amiradm, BioTeam

Post Reply
chips31
Garter
Garter
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:55 pm

A2 nitrogen fixation + denitrification

Post by chips31 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:35 pm

hi, is this right?

nitrogen fixation by root nodules takes the nitrogen gas from the soil and converts it into ammonium compounds. This (after nitrification) allows plants to take up nitrogen in the form of nitrates.

denitrification occurs in anaerobic conditions and converts the nitrates which aren't taken up by plants (due to lack of oxygen so plants don't survive) into nitrogen gas. The nitrogen gas then returns to the cycle.

thanks
Top
User avatar
JackBean
Inland Taipan
Inland Taipan
Posts: 5694
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:12 pm

Post by JackBean » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:00 pm

the fixation sound fine to me. The denitrification sounds to me, like if you meant to by done by plants, but I think it's done by bacteria ;)
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
Top
chips31
Garter
Garter
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:55 pm

Post by chips31 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:26 am

ok, thankyou
Top
User avatar
JackBean
Inland Taipan
Inland Taipan
Posts: 5694
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:12 pm

Post by JackBean » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:28 am

You're welcome, but I still don't get the denitrification ;)
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
Top
chips31
Garter
Garter
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:55 pm

Post by chips31 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:40 am

I think its that denitrifing bacteria in the soil convert the excess nitrates into nitrites and then nitrogen gas so that the nitrogen can be put back into the cycle. Otherwise in waterlogged soil, there would be a load of nitrogen in the form of nitrates that wouldn't be used. In effect I think its the opposite of nitrification.
Top
User avatar
JackBean
Inland Taipan
Inland Taipan
Posts: 5694
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:12 pm

Post by JackBean » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:33 am

I'm taking it back. Why should plants uptake nitrogen as nitrates? Why not incorporate ammonia into amino acids?

Regarding your last post, there are bacteria converting NO3- to NO2- and bacteria converting NO2- to N2 ;)
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
Top
chips31
Garter
Garter
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:55 pm

Post by chips31 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:52 pm

Sorry but I have no idea. I guess they have to uptake nitrogen as nitrates because thats the only form that they can absorb? How would they convert ammonia into amino acids? I thought that ammonification converted amino acids to ammonia so that it could be nitrified??
Top
User avatar
JackBean
Inland Taipan
Inland Taipan
Posts: 5694
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:12 pm

Post by JackBean » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:37 pm

So, plants uptake nitrate and convert it with nitrate reductase and nitrite reductase down to ammonia. Plants with symbiotic bacteria (like Leguminosae http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id3273/) can convert nitrogen to ammonia.
This ammonia is than incorporated into amino acids like Glc and Gln by GS-GOGAT system.
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
Top
User avatar
jwalin
Coral
Coral
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm
Location: ahmedabad, gujarat, India

Post by jwalin » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:15 am

just putting up your question again jackbean
why don't the plants use ammonia directly?
it isn't what you do that matters but it is how you do it
Top
User avatar
JackBean
Inland Taipan
Inland Taipan
Posts: 5694
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:12 pm

Post by JackBean » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:21 pm

ammonia is toxic
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
Top
User avatar
jwalin
Coral
Coral
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm
Location: ahmedabad, gujarat, India

Re:

Post by jwalin » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:40 am

JackBean wrote:So, plants uptake nitrate and convert it with nitrate reductase and nitrite reductase down to ammonia.

but they do make it. but somehow if they can use the NH3 directly then won't it be helpful.

what do you think can be done so this is possible
just imagine by genetic engineering and transformation you get the changes you are willing to do then what mechanism could be used so as to make it possible

was a bit confusing. :oops:
it isn't what you do that matters but it is how you do it
Top
User avatar
JackBean
Inland Taipan
Inland Taipan
Posts: 5694
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:12 pm

Post by JackBean » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:25 am

in this system with symbiotic bacteria, the ammonia is immediately incorporated into Glu and Gln by above mentioned GS-GOGAT system, which has very low K_M for NH3
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Ecology”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests