Problems with Evolution !

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Ciwan
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Problems with Evolution !

Post by Ciwan » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:46 pm

Hi Guys

I knew the title would get your attention :) hehehehe

OK I'm a strong believer in Evolution, but I want to know does evolution have flaws ?

Are there things that contradict evolution (ignoring ancient scribblings).

Thank You :)

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enarees
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Re: Problems with Evolution !

Post by enarees » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:44 am

Ciwan wrote:Hi Guys

I knew the title would get your attention :) hehehehe

OK I'm a strong believer in Evolution, but I want to know does evolution have flaws ?

Are there things that contradict evolution (ignoring ancient scribblings).

Thank You :)


The evolution theory don't speak about importance of autogenesis among high species.

But the autogenesis is the one of two basic conditions for the "gene chemistry"/creation/evolution...

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Post by Ciwan » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:22 am

can you explain a bit more please !

I've just typed autogenesis into Wikipedia and got :

In biology the word autogenesis has been used to describe two similar concepts:

* Abiogenesis - the origin of life, as used by Aristotle and in modern theory.[1]
* Orthogenesis - a discredited evolutionary idea that hypothesised a directed 'teleological' form of evolution.


I thought Abiogenesis had nothing to do with evolution, Evolution (fact to me) doesn't explain how life originally begun, it explains once life has begun how it con evolve to give more complex species.

So IT DOESN'T need to know explain how life begun, that should be a different science, called " Abiogenesis " << this is all my opinion :)

Thank You.

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Post by alextemplet » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:02 pm

Many experiments have indicated that the conditions of the early earth were ideal for the spontaneous formation of biological compounds and perhaps even the first life forms, but as you said that really has little or nothing to do with evolution itself. Evoution is very well-supported by evidence and there are no serious scientific theories that contradict it, so the answer to your question is that it's pretty solid.
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Re:

Post by enarees » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:32 pm

alextemplet wrote:Many experiments have indicated that the conditions of the early earth were ideal for the spontaneous formation of biological compounds and perhaps even the first life forms, but as you said that really has little or nothing to do with evolution itself. Evoution is very well-supported by evidence and there are no serious scientific theories that contradict it, so the answer to your question is that it's pretty solid.


How is realised evolution?
With mutations? :roll: :?

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Post by Ciwan » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:02 pm

Thank you alextemplet :)

enarees I don't really understand what you're saying !! can you please explain

thank you :)

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Post by alextemplet » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:58 am

Ciwan wrote:enarees I don't really understand what you're saying !! can you please explain


Don't even try; no one can understand him.
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Re: Re:

Post by canalon » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:58 am

enarees wrote:How is realised evolution?
With mutations? :roll: :?


Mutations are generting the diversity, but they are only part of the whole process: gene duplications, genetic transfer (whatever the mechanism), crossing over and everything that shuffle and distribute gene can impact the fitness of the organisms, and all that will be subject to selection. That is what is covered y the word evolution.
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Re: Re:

Post by enarees » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:12 pm

canalon wrote:Mutations are generting the diversity, but they are only part of the whole process: gene duplications, genetic transfer (whatever the mechanism), crossing over and everything that shuffle and distribute gene can impact the fitness of the organisms, and all that will be subject to selection. That is what is covered y the word evolution.


A series of mistakes cannot do anything harmonic. Especially, if the way of reproduction does not allow the bad genes to be rejected.

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Post by alextemplet » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:19 pm

Who ever says mutations are a mistake? If there's no mutation, there's no genetic variation, and thus zero ability to adapt to a changing environment. Viruses are a prime example. If they didn't mutate, they'd go extinct as soon as a single drug was developed to kill them. Yet they're still here, because of their ability to mutate. In my opinion, that's a survival strategy, not a mistake.
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Re: Re:

Post by canalon » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:37 pm

enarees wrote:A series of mistakes cannot do anything harmonic. Especially, if the way of reproduction does not allow the bad genes to be rejected.


That is a strong statement, that is very wrong. Creative errors are common. Just see simple mutations giving rise to antibiotic resistance. Gene duplications, chaperonins and other mechanism allow the accumulation of mutations without effects, until an event disturb the balance. And generally bad mutations can be excluded from the gene pool quite quickly.
Plus remember that the definition of genes in terms of fitness would not necessarily match that of an individual. For example a deficiency with a very delayed onset, might be neutral or even beneficiary from the evolutionary point of view.
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Re: Re:

Post by enarees » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:57 pm

canalon wrote:
enarees wrote:A series of mistakes cannot do anything harmonic. Especially, if the way of reproduction does not allow the bad genes to be rejected.

...
And generally bad mutations can be excluded from the gene pool quite quickly.
...


Without autogenesis - impossible.

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