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dog and wolf

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Postby Zachthemac » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:49 pm

I believe dogs are evoloutionary forms of wolves

Like we said earlier, dogs were not created through natural selection like you say. They were domesticated, which means their living conditions and breeding (selective breeding) were controlled by humans, so that after many generations the population would be less wild.
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Postby Mister Jon » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:17 am

Oh yeah selective breeding - that is more likely. Selective breeding has been carried out by many civilisations from ancient history - that would explain why now there are so many breeds of dog.
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After that

Postby victor » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:58 am

Hmm...I'm agree with domesticated through selective breefing...But, By time, it seems that dog is dog and wolf is wolf...(I mean not looks like). Nowadays we found that dogs are exactly different from wolves (the face.. :lol: )
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wolves and dogs

Postby charles brough » Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:48 pm

Perhaps it is is a mistake to make moral judgements about animals. Wolves love and take care of their young, but nearly all mammals do. If they sometimes eat their young, it is because their numbers have increased too much when there is not enough food, as stated above, and they would otherwise starve to death. It is always out of necessity for a species that it does something. Hyenas hunt in packs and steal food from bigger preditors. That is neither "good" nor "bad" but what the animal has been evolved to do. Because of his shape and behavior, it fills a niche. No animal is "better" or "worse" than any other.

By the way, we picture the dog as been bred from the wolf, but there do arise a few questions. Is there any connection with either dogs or wolves to the African hunting dogs and to Australian dingos? :?:
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Postby Zachthemac » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:21 am

Is there any connection with either dogs or wolves to the African hunting dogs and to Australian dingos?

The Australian dingo (Canis lupus dingo) and the domestic dog (Canis lupus familiaris) are very closely related being that they are both subspecies of the grey wolf (Canis lupus). The African hunting dogs (which I had never heard of; thanks for enlightening me :wink: ) are also from the family Canidae, but a different genus than dogs.

This page might give you a better understanding.
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Postby damien » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:08 am

Do wolves eat their young? By asking tha it seems like you don't like wolves. Wolves are known for being extremely protective over their young and don't eat their young any more than a domestic dog would.


Wolves are really interesting because they are such social animals and have social hierarchies - that work systematically for the benifit of the pack. I read once that-- When wolves have puppies the parent dogs will leave the puppies to go hunting— but an older dog, to old to hunt —will stay behind to protect the puppies and act as a baby sitter. So, not only will the parents take care of the puppies but the other dogs in the pack will look after them as well. They have socail orders within the pack as well, the alpha dog in the pack-- the leader always gets to eat first-- the other dogs stay subordinate and wait to eat.

The reason why domestic dogs will hang around humans and be loyal is because they still have that same trait that they inherited from wolves that makes them loyal to the pack. Most domestic dog training books will tell you that a domestic dog view its human family as its pack-- and that it should view its human master as the Alpha dog in the pack. Wolves are really amazing- intelligent animals-- I think domestic dogs are just like wolves only... thier ability to hunt, and fear of humans, has been bred out of them.

How dogs have evolved really interests me -- and the way humans have been able to breed certain behaviorisms into them or out of them. For example sheep dogs- particularly border collies- Somehow humans bred them to eye sheep (croach, and stare at the sheep and move the sheep to whereever the sheep herder wants the sheep to go. The way the border collies eye the sheep is actually said to be inherited from the way wolves stalk prey in packs- they surround them and stalk before going in for the kill -- but the difference between the stalking instinct of a wolf and a border collie is that the border collie will not run in for the kill-- so the stalking behaviour was bred into the border collie while the run in for the kill was bred out--- its just amazing to me. Sheep herders can tell a border collie to go get a single sheep on a hill a half a mile away and the border collie will herd it back to the barn - without deciding to kill it and eat it along the way... Another thing that is really amazing to me is- a sheep herder can just whistle a certain way and a border collie will go left or go right- Surely, if sheep herders could breed dogs to do such amazing things they could be bred to clean my house and mow my lawn--(just kidding)
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Re: dog and wolf

Postby deadth1 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:02 pm

hello every one I'm doing a project at school about wolfs, and could anyone tell me about thier social behavior ? thanks a lot
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Re: dog and wolf

Postby Mikey » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:45 pm

MrMistery wrote:According to that site, you are right. According to my textbook, i am right. So which one is it?


What textbook do you have? Publisher? Author?
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Re: dog and wolf

Postby futurezoologist » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:15 am

hello every one I'm doing a project at school about wolfs, and could anyone tell me about thier social behavior ? thanks a lot


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf
Follow this link and you will find pages of infomation on the grey wolf.
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Re: dog and wolf

Postby futurezoologist » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:35 am

Seems you were right and my textbook is garbage. It's not the first time i get that


You textbook may not nessisarily be wrong(depending on their wording) as there is alot of hazeyness about the issue of species classification, being able to breed and produce fertile offspring does not provide a cirtain basis that the pair are of the same species, for example wolves and cyotes are different species and are able to cross to produce fertile offspring, and bacteria reproduce asexually so it definatly has it flaws and this is primarily due to the fact that there is a continuum of differences between different organsisms and no set line where we can say ok you have now evolved enough to be a different species to them.One co-definition that has been paired with cross breeding to produce fertile offspring is that the breeding must be able to occur in a natural environment under natural circumstances but it still does not fill all the gaps. It is a highly debated issue and all of the classifications have their flaws, so one could justly argue that the grey wolf and a whippet for example are different species.
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Re: dog and wolf

Postby EdLincoln » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:51 pm

Everyone fixates on the whole "pack mentality" when talking about domestic dogs. The behavior of domesticated dogs resembles that of wolf CUBS. Dogs have been bred to retain juvenile traits into adulthood, because that makes them cuter (and safer to have around).

Recent research suggests a lot of dog breeding was not conscious, but an accidental biproduct of killing dogs that bite people, amd feeding ones that are cute. It appears the irregular color patterns on dogs are a result of a defective version of the gene that codes for an enzyme used in making both adrenaline and pigment. Adrenaline is responsible for the "Fight or Flight" Response. A dog that has less adrenaline is less likely to run from you when you try to pet it AND less likely to bit you. (real wolves are both more skittish around humans and more likely to bite).

Dingos appear to be descended from domestic dogs broght by the first Australians.

For a while there was a dispute between whether African Wild Dogs or wolves are the ancestors of domestic dogs, but DNA now points in the direction of wolves being the ancestors.


Other odd wolf/dog differences.
1.) Dogs have longer intestines than wolves. Generally, herbivores and omnivores have longer intestines than pure predaters, because it takes more processing to make a piece of a tree into a piece of you than to make a piece of a cow (one mammal) than a piece of another mammal. That processing occurs in part in the intestine. Dogs are evolving in the direction of being more omnivorous, because we are, and dogs that can better digest the table scraps we feed them have an obvious survival advantage.
2.) Domesti dogs and humans are the only animals that understand the concept of pointing. Neither chimps nor wolves understand the concept, although both species are smarter than dogs. Dogs seem to be beter at reading human body language than any other non-human mammal. An obvious survival advantage for either a pet or a stray living in human neighborhoods.
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Re:

Postby Mikey » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:57 pm

Mister Jon wrote:Oh yeah selective breeding - that is more likely. Selective breeding has been carried out by many civilisations from ancient history - that would explain why now there are so many breeds of dog.


Wouldn't it be more like Artificial Selection? Because it's more like humans deciding what type of dog they want than the dogs deciding?
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