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Origins of life

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Postby Linn » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:00 pm

Now, now, Margaret ,
you are entitled to your own opinion, read through these threads, those things have been discussed, unless we just PM each other,
to dicuss it :)
Please dont insult me :(
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

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Postby margaret » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:18 pm

Lynn, you are obviously very bright and you use your computer quite well. Please google the words 'scientific method'. Hopefully you can learn what the word 'theory' means as applied to scientific knowledge. All real science is accepted only when it meets these simple requirements.
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Postby alextemplet » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:38 am

As the forum's resident Catholic, and as a person who has argued very strongle in defense of evolution, I have just this to say, "What are we arguing about in the first place?"

I think that in all this religious debate, we've lost sight of our true purpose. I say that because I don't even remember what that true purpose is. All I know is that this is our "Biblical Theology Debate" thread.

That is all I have to say.
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Postby Linn » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:56 am

Well Margaret apparently is calling in to question if I know about scientific method and for me to google it.

:roll:

I could answer you w/o googling :shock:

If you think I am your average bible tooter who says the earth is
6000years you are wrong.

As for the grand canyon it is obviously very old, as it was slooooowly carved out by glaciers. But the age has just recently been changed (yet again) by geologists) if you dont believe me googlt it! I think they just shaved like 40 million years off the previously estimated age.
Radio active dating is not an exact science either.
So I will say the earth is in the ball park of 100's of thousands/millions of years old, perhaps 5 billion as has been estimated.
we know this from the estimation of the ratio of radioactive half life.
the earth age is checked by the ratios of uranium >lead which it becomes when radioactivity is lost. :)
BTW I am >Lynne (with an e)
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Postby Linn » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:09 am

alextemplet wrote:As the forum's resident Catholic, and as a person who has argued very strongle in defense of evolution, I have just this to say, "What are we arguing about in the first place?"

I think that in all this religious debate, we've lost sight of our true purpose. I say that because I don't even remember what that true purpose is. All I know is that this is our "Biblical Theology Debate" thread.

That is all I have to say.

Well I am not arguing R U Margaret?
In fact I agree that some religious people take things a bit too literal.

And Alex the things you say are too cute :)
you make me smile :) :)
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Postby AstusAleator » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:57 am

uh oh, what were we saying about catfights?

Any how, Margaret and Linn, one thing you both seem to agree on (which I of course disagree on because that's just how I am) is that there has been this recent emergence or rash of conflict between religion and science. It's not recent though, nor is it any more heated now than it was when the TOE was first proposed. There has probably always been an anti-religious effort, under one guise or another. With the advancement of science, atheistic groups captialized on this "proof" against God, but their conclusions about a "lack of God" are just as unscientific as the groups they oppose (sometimes more unscientific).
Were i to use radio-isotopes or the geologic fossil record as proof that God does not exist, I would be just as foolish as those that use things such as irreducible complexity as proof that He does exist.

Really it's rather pointless to argue, as it's a matter of belief. If I were to believe that a god doesn't exist (which I don't) there wouldn't be much or anything anyone could tell me or show me to make me change my mind. Beliefs are funny things.

I think that if someone like alex can BELIEVE in God and practice the science of evolution, that shows that they're not mutually exclusive. I also think that it's important that schools teach the SCIENCE of evolution, not the belief in evolution nor the belief in ID.
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Postby Linn » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:13 pm

Good post there thanx :)
Ya, I don't want a cat fight.
I was not going to post here much any more, but I felt a bit pickd on,
as margaret seemed to be calling in to question that I dont know about science due to my belief in God and ID. At least that was my take on it.
I have had my share of biology classes and many more to come, and have read about evolution too. I am still learning, and believe it or not I have learned quite a bit from all you guys Thanx :wink:
But I have not changed my mind.
I have friends who are doctors and physicists and astronomic engineers, who are smarter than me , and happen to be even more religious than I am, and do not believe in evolution either.
It's a choice. And you cant proove there is NOT a God.
I think some day we will ALL have an understanding of the origen of life (At least I hope so) einstein kept his mind open about it.
it makes no more sense to me to say that aminio acids and atoms etcc just came out of no where one day as it does to say God came Created them. And if God created every thing then he is the most scientific one of all :) And I love him :)

So enough said by me on this subject.
~Lynne
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Postby alextemplet » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:36 am

Linn wrote:
alextemplet wrote:As the forum's resident Catholic, and as a person who has argued very strongle in defense of evolution, I have just this to say, "What are we arguing about in the first place?"

I think that in all this religious debate, we've lost sight of our true purpose. I say that because I don't even remember what that true purpose is. All I know is that this is our "Biblical Theology Debate" thread.

That is all I have to say.

Well I am not arguing R U Margaret?
In fact I agree that some religious people take things a bit too literal.

And Alex the things you say are too cute :)
you make me smile :) :)


Thanks. I'm just downright adorable, aren't I? :P
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Postby waterboy » Sat May 06, 2006 7:12 pm

Actually I view life from another perspective. It may either be something really cool or somethng down right absurd.

Firstly, to everyone already here, if possible provide links to free resources (like articles etc) on the web. It might help me (and others like me) to get a grasp about this subject, or so I assume . Anyway, I don't want to talk anymore about how to learn biology.

Secondly, I may be rather vague at how I state things here. I believe in something, I feel, which is really strange. I may be stubborn in my views at the moment, but my main point was in trying to somehow find a rational explanation to life; which was why I stumbled over the idea of survival. I don't really mind if anyone says it is ridiculous; just make me believe I am wrong, ok. So let us have no ego problems on this note.

Like mithrilhack suggested even I believe I am more into behaviour than biology. However, I would not want to comment about it; I am still unsure about what actually I'm interested in. So if you find this annoying - I apologize.

Coming back to the main point. I've tried to answer questions related to certain emotions like fear, love, etc. How does behaviour start? How does an emotion start? How did a species become intelligent about their own feelings?

Okay, consider this example. Take the case of stray dogs. I have not really done this experiment. I'm only predicting outcomes here. If you raise your hand to mimic the gesture of throwing a stone, notice what happens - the dogs takes caution. It runs. Now let me raise your curiosity further: suppose this dog for some reason has not had exposure to humans or other dogs at all since birth. It is some how trying to live, and it is doing rather well at that. Now, out of the blue, let some human being mimic the gesture of throwing the stone at him. What will happen now?

I predict the dog will take to its heels.

Now why don't disprove me and explain this in the context of evolution. It would really help.

One other fact of life. This time consider new born babies. As soon as infants are out of their mother's womb, they are cute silent creatures to look at, until they fall hungry. The mother then gives them their breast.Now IT IS A PERFECTLY NORMAL THING. But strangely they know how to suckle as well. Isn't that food for thought? How do they know?

What is the issue with the idea of survival here? Say that the infant did not have the software to suckle. What then? Would it live?
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Postby AstusAleator » Tue May 09, 2006 1:21 am

Waterboy,
there are a lot of built in mechanisms in all animals including humans.
First of all, with your dog experiment, I'd say you're probably right. The dog unfamiliar with humans would still flinch, or at least become much more alert (probably attack, lol) if you raised your arm. I can think of a couple of things to explain that. Chances are they're both probably right. a) Almost all animals use height or altitude as intimidation displays. If you look at any animals in a confrontation (chickens are a good example, so are humans ironically) they're constantly trying to make themselves taller than the other. Altitude probably provides somewhat of an advantage in a fight, but more importantly it's more intimidating. b) dog evolution is tied to humans, and thus some responses to human behavior may have become ingrained in dog DNA (MAYBE). That one might be a bit of a stretch, but it has been shown that dogs are incredibly sensitive to human non-verbal communication. They can tell what mood you're in, if you're sick, even what you're going to do next (ie stand up, sit down, walk, run, throw a ball).
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Postby alextemplet » Tue May 09, 2006 2:27 am

Very intersting, Astus, but in the Marine Corps we were taught that altitude is a disadvantage, not an asset, in a fight. The best way to win is to get under your opponent's center of gravity and use his own weight against him.

Of course, to most, big and tall is still scary and intimidating, so your point is definitely correct, but I just felt like chiming in. :wink:
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Postby mith » Wed May 17, 2006 2:20 pm

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
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