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Immortality

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Immortality

Postby kenmaclean27 » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:03 am

Is immortality possible for a human? I state “for a human” in comparison to a gene. Dawkins was first to realise the genes’ quest for immortality, men and all living organisms being vessels allowing them to travel through eternity. There is no choice involved, genes obey to a force, which doesn’t exist, a strength which forces division and eternal struggle. If the genes had consciousness, would they consider themselves as gods or as slaves?
We humans do hold consciousness. Immortality has become settled in our minds since we first understood the concept of death. The after-life imposed itself as the answer to this need. Science, pain, pragmatism or a loss in the basis of faith made us look for a new solution, a biological solution.
Is immortality biologically possible? It is. Nothing contradicts this statement. If our cells develop from one cell to a baby, to a juvenile and to an adult, there is no reason why they cannot sustain one certain level of development if the right quantity and quality of molecules is ingested. But our genes have no benefit in having us live too long, their chance of propagation is greater if they transfer from vessel to vessel, adapting and improving the vessel along the way. If we had the power to create any genotype, and change a fundamental part of it, death, immortality would be in front of us, not available to us, but to our children
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Postby baikuza » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:19 pm

i do not think so.
But our genes have no benefit in having us live too long, their chance of propagation is greater if they transfer from vessel to vessel, adapting and improving the vessel along the way

i get it. when using tissue culture we wil not get 100% the same organism. because the unperfect dissassociation of the genes...and we still can not avoid it. but it is not 100% too that our DNA changed after the cell reproduction. so the term "..if they transfer ..improving the vessel along the way" is not abosolutely correct.
Is immortality biologically possible? It is

but as we know, did you get the living thing not die?
we know that a living thing always has some chemical and physical mechanism in their cell(s).. but like another physical matter (e.g. gold, uranium, platina, coal) will be damaged by the time..even you put it in the box... because there is activities of chemical and physical mechanism.(this is not served in the space..exosphere.. because the only we can find there is non-living thing.. planet is nonliving thing, but inside its protective "shell" as in earth the is life on it)

soul is in another dimension.. far from this dimension. and there is no physical matter-soul is not physical matter- so that there is no death there
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Re: Immortality

Postby Khaiy » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:11 pm

kenmaclean27 wrote:Is immortality biologically possible? It is.


Nope, I'm afraid not. As baikuza stated, eventually, the very elements in your body would break down. It would take a very long time, but eventually it would catch up with you (in the entire history of the earth, we've only gone through one half life of carbon I believe, but it'll still decay).

But a much faster effect would be the breaking down of your genetic material. At the end of every strand of DNA in your body is a segment called a telomere. In any cell that is not an embryonic stem cell (read: every cell in your body), each replication of genetic material results in a small segment being "snipped" off of the end. The DNA on a telomere is non-coding, so that's not such a big deal. But after several decades of replication, cells will eventually begin to lose necessary genetic material. This will kill you.
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Postby kiekyon » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:05 am

From a medical point of view, with the advent of modern medicine, we live much longer than our parents and grandparents. We will probably have children that live longer than we do, and so on.

However , as you noted, all living things have a limitted lifespan. The creator, super power, mother nature, God, or by whatever name you want to attach to him or her, has seen to it; that trees do not grow into heaven and all living tings must eventually die. This necesary for evolution to occur.

Even the death of species, is a must in order to propagate the remaining and evolving. A primary mechanism by which the process of aging takes place is by the breaking off of small particles of at the ends of chromosomes during the reproduction of your cells. That is, with each cell division a piece of chromosome is lost.
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Postby Poison » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:45 pm

If you look at real life you can see that immortality is not possible. Well, yes, this is my opinion. Have a look at people, if they do not die of natural causes(such as heart failure) or other problems (like accidents), even if it is not genetic, they die because of cancer. I think (not only I of course some scientist think that too) that is something like a natural suicide mechanism made by the organism to itself. You can think that like (note that I said "like") apoptosis of cell. Something that is programmed. It may be something coded in your DNA. (just a guess)
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Postby AstusAleator » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:45 am

Ah, but what about human cloning? If we could find a way to transfer our minds (the thoughts ect, not the physical brain) to new bodies, we could theoretically live forever.
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Postby Khaiy » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:31 am

Well, that's something of a cheat, but your consciousness would live on, and your body would be genetically the same all the time...
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Postby kabuto » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:52 am

AstusAleator wrote:Ah, but what about human cloning? If we could find a way to transfer our minds (the thoughts ect, not the physical brain) to new bodies, we could theoretically live forever.


transfer our mind? we dont even had a clear idea what it is? :?:
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Postby February Beetle » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:23 pm

I have said this before on this forum so sorry if you've heard it before but when you clone something it doesn't live any longer than the original being. Like Dolly was cloned from the DNA from a 2 yr old sheep, sheep usually die at age 5 of lung canser, Dolly died at age 3 of lung canser. (= 5 years). If you cloned yourself you better do it when you're young. If you clone yourself at age 40 I bet your clone won't live much longer than that.
This is due to the loss of the telomere as Khaiy has said.
So unless you are from Krypton under our orange sun here on Earth, no luck for you.
But, there is an article in my Scientific America that I haven't read yet that talks about "unlocking the secrets of longevity genes, can DNA stop time?" So maybe if you could stop your cells from going through mitosis unless they really really needed to (?) If that is what you're saying. Then you better have super strong cells or take very good care of yourself.
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Postby Zeneth Entorion » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:32 pm

Of course immortality is biologically possible. Just look at plants- by our standards they are effectively immortal. There are two central (short-term) problems with living for a great amount of time I can think of- disease-causing bacteria/viruses, and cancer. The problem with disease is that viruses and bacteria are going to keep evolving, where as you are not. This can be solved by the fact that human technology also evolves- new methods for fighting disease are created all the time. More drastically, you could do some directly artificial evolution- namely, gene therapy.

Cancer would be a little more tricky to solve (obviously -_-) but human technology is getting pretty good! The basic problem is a biochemical mechanism of differentiating between cancer cells and good cells, and then eliminating those cancer cells.

As for the simple degenerative aging process itself, I suspect it is just a side-effect. The probability of a human in a natural environment living up to the age at which the effects take place is so slim that evolution could effectively ignore it. It's only a matter of time before we solve it!

On a longer scale- i.e breakdown of genetic material, and ultimately the atoms from which your body is made- the solution is of course to create a sophisticated repair mechanism for these breakdowns. I suspect you could do this via genetic engineering (retroviruses which insert your own code back into your cells?) or nanomachines. Much more sophisticated technology would be required for such problems, of course, but by the time it becomes a problem hopefully technology will have advanced sufficiently to solve them!
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Postby mith » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:18 pm

nanobots to repair everything ;). But then again do we really want to live forever?
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Postby Poison » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:27 pm

AstusAleator wrote:Ah, but what about human cloning? If we could find a way to transfer our minds (the thoughts ect, not the physical brain) to new bodies, we could theoretically live forever.


But that organism is not "you".

And I don't think anybody wants to live forever.
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