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Science on evolution

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Postby Linn » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:20 pm

mithrilhack wrote:If he actually provides some new evidence or research I might be inclined to disbelieve it but it seems to be the same old batch of half-truths and misunderstood "facts"(probablity, entropy, decrease in information, fossil record, irreducible complexity)


I am sure you are very busy... but would you read new info if it was presented to you?

I will read any NEW info you may have.

But I am not a biologist so I need it in translation.
evolution for dummies lol

http://www.creationscience.com/
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Postby Linn » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:24 pm

In case no one scrolls down:

excerpt about the book:

Twenty Questions for Evolutionists

To answer a question satisfactorily, one must first understand facts related to that question. When you click on the page numbers following each question, you will be taken to a brief section within the online book, In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood. There you will see why knowledgeable evolutionists have great difficulty answering these questions. If you find evolutionists who feel they or others can answer these questions, then ask one more question: “Why won’t evolutionists enter a strictly scientific, written debate on the creation-evolution issue?”; After you read the entire book, the answer will be evident. For details on this written debate offer, see pages 344-346.

1. Where has macroevolution ever been observed? (See page 6.) What’s the mechanism for getting new complexity, such as new vital organs? (See pages 6–8.) If any of the thousands of vital organs evolved, how could the organism live before getting the vital organ? (Without a vital organ, the organism is dead—by definition.) If a reptile’s leg evolved into a bird’s wing, wouldn’t it become a bad leg long before it became a good wing? How could metamorphosis evolve? (See page 17.)

2. Do you realize how complex living things are? (See page 13.) How could organs as complex as the eye, ear, or brain of even a tiny bird ever come about by chance or natural processes? (See page 8.) How could a bacterial motor evolve? How could such motors work until all components evolved completely and were precisely in place? (See page 19.)

3. If macroevolution happened, where are the billions of transitional fossils that should be there? Billions! Not a handful of questionable transitions. Why don’t we see a reasonably smooth continuum among all living creatures, or in the fossil record, or both? (See page 11.)

4. Textbooks show an evolutionary tree, but where is its trunk and where are its branches? For example, what are the evolutionary ancestors of the insects? (See page 11.)

5. How could the first living cell begin? That’s a greater miracle than for bacteria to evolve into man. How could that first cell reproduce? (See page 14.) Just before life appeared, did the atmosphere have oxygen or did it not have oxygen? Whichever choice you make creates a terrible problem for evolution. Both must come into existence at about the same time. (See page 13.)

6. Please point to a strictly natural process that creates information. What evidence is there that information, such as that in DNA, could ever assemble itself? What about the 4,000 books’ worth of coded information that are in a tiny part of each of your 100 trillion cells? If astronomers received an intelligent signal from some distant galaxy, most people would conclude that it came from an intelligent source. Why then doesn’t the vast information sequence in the DNA molecule of just a bacterium also imply an intelligent source? (See pages 10 and 15.)

7. Which came first, DNA or the proteins needed by DNA, which can only be produced by DNA? (See page 15.)

8. How could sexual reproduction evolve? (See page 18.) How could immune systems evolve? (See page 18.)

9. If it takes intelligence to make an arrowhead, why doesn’t it take vastly more intelligence to create a human? Do you really believe that hydrogen will turn into people if you wait long enough?

10. If the solar system evolved, why do three planets spin backwards? Why do at least 30 moons revolve backwards? (See page 24.)

11. Can you name one reasonable hypothesis on how the moon got there—any hypothesis that is consistent with all the data? Why aren’t students told the scientific reasons for rejecting all the evolutionary theories for the moon’s origin? What about the other 138+ moons in the solar system? (See page 26.)

12. Where did matter, space, time, energy, or even the laws of physics come from? (See page 27.) What about water? (See page 24.)

13. How could stars evolve? (See pages 28–30.)

14. Are you aware of all the unreasonable assumptions and contradictory evidence used by those who say the earth is billions of years old? (See pages 34–37 and 264–269.)

15. Why are living bacteria found inside rocks that you say are hundreds of millions of years old and in meteorites that you say are billions of years old? Clean-room techniques and great care were used to rule out contamination. (See page 33.)

16. Did you know that most scientific dating techniques indicate that the earth, solar system, and universe are young? (See pages 31–37.)

17. Why do so many ancient cultures have flood legends? (See page 45.)

18. Have you heard about the mitochondrial Eve and the genetic Adam? Scientists know that the mitochondrial Eve was the common female ancestor of every living person, and she appears to have lived only about 6,000–7,000 years ago. (See pages 261–263.)

19. Careful researchers have found the following inside meteorites: living bacteria, salt crystals, limestone, water, sugars, terrestrial-like brines, and earthlike isotopic patterns. Doesn’t this implicate Earth as their source—and a powerful launcher, “the fountains of the great deep?” (See page 249.)

20. Would you explain the origin of any of the following 25 features of the earth:

The Grand Canyon and Other Canyons
Mid-Oceanic Ridge
Continental Shelves and Slopes
Ocean Trenches (See pages 135–155.)
Seamounts and Tablemounts
Earthquakes
Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor
Submarine Canyons
Coal and Oil Formations
Methane Hydrates
Ice Age
Frozen Mammoths (See pages 177 –205.)
Major Mountain Ranges
Overthrusts
Volcanoes and Lava
Geothermal Heat
Strata and Layered Fossils (See pages 157–167.)
Metamorphic Rock
Limestone (See pages 169–175.)
Plateaus
Salt Domes
Jigsaw Fit of the Continents
Changing Axis Tilt
Comets (See pages 207–237.)
Asteroids and Meteoroids (See pages 239–256.)
In a broad overview, pages 101–131 explain some obvious problems with evolutionists’ explanations for each of these 24 features and show how all are consequences of a global flood. (Additional page numbers above refer to chapters devoted entirely to a single feature.)



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Postby b_d_41501 » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:49 pm

Are we at the point that we just copy and paste an entire web page? You could just argue your point and cite it as a source you know...
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Postby MrMistery » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:13 pm

1. Vital organs are vital. And yet, bacteria live without a heart and fish don't need our lungs...

2. Irreducible complexity... A favourite among ID debaters. Basically means "If i don't understand it then it is impossible".. I agree it's very scientific

3. Has anyone dug up all the fosils and can tell for sure that there are no transitional fases? From what i know, we have discovered less than 1% of the fossils out there. And have personally seen over 20-30 fosils and live fosils that support evolution, without even looking for them. It seems no matter how many are dug up, ID debaters will always say "Just an isolated example"

4. Kidding right? Moluscs...

5. No they don't. There are a lot of examples today of organisms that live in anaerobiosys. Also, there is the mistake that you assume the simplest organism today is as complex as the simplest organism to form...

6. Why couldn't it? The only thing in this universe that can not be distoryed or fabricated is energy. But information is a completely different story. Polimerisation of aminoacids requires no information, and leads to a protein.

7. Have you ever heard of the RNA world? We are almost sure today that the first organisms used RNA as genetic material instead of DNA to avoid such a problem.

And i got bored... I am not a person fascinated by evolution and therefore my answers may be incomplete. However, i can not stand around and watch how people say that God planted fossils in the ground just to trick Darwin...
"As a biologist, I firmly believe that when you're dead, you're dead. Except for what you live behind in history. That's the only afterlife" - J. Craig Venter
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Postby Springer » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:31 pm

quote="MrMistery"

2. Irreducible complexity... A favourite among ID debaters. Basically means "If i don't understand it then it is impossible".. I agree it's very scientific


Darwin himself conceded that irreducible complexity would debunk evolution when he wrote,

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."

I guess Darwin was "unscientific" as well.

And i got bored... I am not a person fascinated by evolution and therefore my answers may be incomplete. However, i can not stand around and watch how people say that God planted fossils in the ground just to trick Darwin...


Fossils do not proclaim evolution. Gradualism exists only in the mind of the "true believer".
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Postby AstusAleator » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:38 pm

Isn't all of this being addressed in the Origin of Life thread?
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Postby mith » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:22 pm

agreed, might as well lock the thread....same topic lol
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