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YES I THINK-- Life Without Water Posssiiibble.

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YES I THINK-- Life Without Water Posssiiibble.

Postby sachin » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:32 pm

CAN WE CREAT (or DOES EXIST)LIFE DEPENDANT OF METHANOL INSTEAD OF WATER :?:

Since It is Universaly Accepted that No H2O NO Life
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But it is My opinion that YES we can creat an system (life) with Methanol.


As we know CH3-OH Resembles H2O in some properties.

:o Just We have Find Cell Organisation that works on Methanol instead Water.

Then it might be possible that we have an Eukaryote dependent of Methanol. :!:

:wink: Also, not only Methanol But we can have such hundreds of such chemicals.

:idea: This Thought Came To My mind While Thinking about Extra terrestrial life.
That there may be such a life exists that is dependant of another chemical not water.


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Postby MrMistery » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:08 pm

I don't think you can create a Ch3-OH dependent cell. From what i know, alcohols destroy everything. Don't know anything specific. Victor?
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Postby AstusAleator » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:17 pm

alcohol is very caustic and volatile.
Also, it is a biological bi-product, not a naturally existing molecule. It is the result of anoxic respiration in micro-organisms. I doubt that a planet would exist where methanol is a basic naturally occurring element.
Also, it would have to be an anoxic environment, or one little spark would ignite the entire planet.
Sorry man, but highly improbable.

Look into silicon-based life, that's a more probable argument.
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Postby Dr.Stein » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 am

MrMistery wrote:I don't think you can create a Ch3-OH dependent cell. From what i know, alcohols destroy everything. Don't know anything specific. Victor?

Victor will be around in the next few days.
He is celebrating Imlek Holiday (Chinese New Year) now ;)

Gong Xi Fa Cai :)

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Postby MrMistery » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:39 pm

CH3OH is not necessarily a biological bi-product. It can occur naturally from the oxidation of methane with water vapours at high temperatures and Ni catalyser if my memory is accurate
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Postby AstusAleator » Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:40 am

I stand corrected.
However, my other arguments are still valid.
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Postby appleguo » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:41 am

haha.. wont we evaporate off if we're made of methanol since it's bpt is so low?
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Postby victor » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:56 am

MrMistery wrote:I don't think you can create a Ch3-OH dependent cell. From what i know, alcohols destroy everything. Don't know anything specific. Victor?


Sorry I'm late.. :D I've just come back from my hometown..ok, let's begin..
my answer is: Too bad, methanol can't replace water and of course I've some reason for it...
1. First thing, chemically
- water is known as a universal solvent because it can dissolve almost every solute necessary for life that we know (that's because most of those solutes are polar and water is a polar solvent). Compare it with methanol which is non-polar. Can it dissolve those things?? :wink:

AstusAleator wrote:alcohol is very caustic and volatile.

sorry boss, all aliphatic alcohols are neutral in pH except cyclic alcohol loke phenol (pH < 7). For the volatile or not, it depends on how long of the carbon chains that form the alcohol.

AstusAleator wrote:Look into silicon-based life....

That's also impossible because even though Si has a nearly same electron configuration as C but it can't form a long chained group like C does. Look into this:
6-C = 1s2 2s2 2p2 or can be written like this:
6-C = 1s2 2s1 2p3 because p sublayer has 3 orbitals then it become
6-C = 1s2 2s1 2px1 2py1 2pz1 (this is called excitated e-).

Now, compare it with 14-Si
14-Si = [Ne] 3s2 3p2
it's located in 3rd period while C is in 2nd period. Beside that, there're also other features that differ C and Si and make it impossible to replace C. see it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon


MrMistery wrote:It can occur naturally from the oxidation of methane with water vapours at high temperatures and Ni catalyser

I can think that would create Formaldehyde or Formaline that I oftenly use to make a food preservations...:lol:

2. Second thing, Biologycally
Um, I can't say much from this side but just think about this...if we catabolyze CH3OH instead of water then we'll die very fast..why? because the breakdown of this molecule can result 2 very reactive free radical which are Methyl carbocation-radical and Hydroxyl-radical..(at leats that's what I can think of).
After that, just compare the boiling point and the density between methanol and water....and correlate them with our body temperature.
Then, can you think one enzyme that we can use to breakdown methanol till it can be used as an electron acceptor in ETS?? :wink:
I think the name is Methanol Breakdownase..:lol:
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Postby AstusAleator » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:05 pm

Well, there has to be a reason alcohol is used to disinfect things...
If it's not it's pH or ionic properties then what is it?
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Postby MrMistery » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:05 pm

Yeah.. it kills organisms :)

@victor
Straight from the chemistry book

CH4 + 1/2O2---> CH3OH (at 400 degrees celsius and 60 atm)

CH4 + O2---> CH2O + H2O(at 400-600 degrees celsius catalysed by nitrogen oxides)

CH4 + H2O ---> CO + 3H2 (at 600-900 degrees cesius catalysed with Ni)

So, i was off, but so were you...
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Postby victor » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:49 am

what I mean is like this:
straight from my mind..:lol:
CH3OH -oxidation-> HCHO
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Postby MrMistery » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:44 pm

Your memory is not bad, but as i posted, it depends on the conditions the reaction takes place at..
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