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Morgellons chemistry question

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Morgellons chemistry question

Postby HarrisonBergeron1 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:03 pm

I would very much like to hear the chemical reaction taking place to produce this result:
http://www.carnicom.com/morgobs7.htm

The best i could find so far as a laymen is the flocculation that takes place as with coca cola. Is there a place in the biology forum where we can discuss the chemical reactions taking place? It shouldn't be hard to moderate since the discussion can only revolve around red wine, peroxide, saliva, tooth enamel and the inner lining of the mouth.

Ive tried the red wine spit test and produced what you see in that link. All i need now is a "normal", scientific explanation for what i am seeing.

Thanks in advance,

Harrison B
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Postby Darby » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:15 pm

The microscopic images don't have enough resolution to really "see" anything.

I would lean toward unconscious retention as the generating process here - holding the test substances longer. Is there a set time for the test?
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Re: Morgellons chemistry question

Postby HarrisonBergeron1 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:40 pm

I don't know the time lapse shown on Carnicom's website. My question is more basic and doesn't require observing the spittle under a microscope. I simply would like to know how this resulting "gooey mass" is produced, in terms of chemical reaction. Even without peroxide, although yielding less, I can spit out what looks to me like wet chewing tobacco(for lack of a better description). What in red wine(merlot works best) reacts inside the mouth/saliva to produce sticky strands?

Oh, and for me personally, there is no time lapse. I rinse for a few minutes and spit. The macroscopic observation is the same as shown on Carnicom's website.
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Re: Morgellons chemistry question

Postby HarrisonBergeron1 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:01 am

@Darby: unconscious retention as the generating process....cute.

Here is something I found regarding antioxidants and redwine:

"only a small fraction of the antioxidants (12.2 ± 3.4 %) is precipitated when wine samples are shaken for a few minutes with non-stimulated human saliva (5:1, V:V). This last result implies that most of the polyphenols present in the red wine samples are able to surpass the barrier imposed by the saliva."

http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?pid=S07 ... ci_arttext

"most polyphenols" means not all polyphenols "...are able to surpass the barrier imposed by saliva". So which polyphenols are responsible for the precipitation and formation that can be seen here:

http://www.carnicom.com/morgobs7.htm

Are there any biochemists that frequent this board?
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Re: Morgellons chemistry question

Postby HarrisonBergeron1 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:23 am

Interactions between saliva and wine
From the table above we see that wine only contains about 0.1% tannins (also known as polyphenols). The sources of tannins found in red wine are the seeds, skin and stem of the grapes. When we drink red wine, the tannins react with proteins in our saliva to form water insoluble protein-tannin complexes. A precipitate is formed and as a result, the lubricating properties of the saliva are lost and our tongue feels rough and dry. In other words, we experience the astringency of the red wine.

http://khymos.org/wine.php

What i don't get is this: The precipitate in the photo doesnt even look remotely close to the dark stringy mass I produce with or without the peroxide. So if tannin creates the precipitate shown in the link above we can rule it out. So far scientific?
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Re: Morgellons chemistry question

Postby HarrisonBergeron1 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:26 am

Wow, not one comment? Is what i'm asking about here not discussed in human biology?

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Re: Morgellons chemistry question

Postby HarrisonBergeron1 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:42 pm

Here is the claim that pectin produces longer chains through oxygenation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gDi1WG7rO0
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Postby gustyplex » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:50 pm

Harrison:

Funny the shelf-life of a simple message board post! I realize that it's over 4 years later... but I'm curious if you ever found the answer(s) to this? I just recently came across the red wind/peroxide test and was surprised at what I produced. Wanting to rule out something that could... like you seem to have been seeking... a reasonable explanation, I set out on doing my research.

Oddly enough... there seems to be a TON out there about the test. And a few Snopes-related explanations regarding the actual origins of the test... but I can't seem to find ANYTHING resembling a logical answer w/accompanied details. No one even really seems to have even asked...

Except for you.

Curious is you ever got an answer outside this well-written and honorably set up query.
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