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creation

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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creation

Postby bitsian003 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:31 pm

hello am sumanth an undergraduate in Biological sciences from India...

i feel that before trying to discuss or argue about evolution we need to have a clear picture of creation. Our present theory [as far as my not so great knowledge goes] states that DNA and other bio molecules are formed as a result of the rigorous conditions on ancient earth... and thus began life as small prokaryotic cells which may have evolved into eukaryotes etc., few things i don't understand is, If evolution is so slow and took place gradually hierarchy... How come dinosaurs [which are larger and much complicated than humans or a fish] were first to b formed? Even considering that the ancient conditions were favorable for the formation of DNA how come life came out of it.. i mean how come a bunch of fatty-acids and proteins and others were able to store any information in DNA [ i say these bio-molecules because they are nothing but what makes a cell] How come the thing called life was incorporated into these...????
I understand that these are the questions which we may forever not be able to answer. There may be no answers to these questions at all...
Here i make an attempt to answer such questions as i see them.


we all know that DNA stores information required for synthesis of various proteins and thus for the life... who actually gave it the information? [who encoded it]
why is it that the code is ALMOST universal?
here are some similarities between DNA and computer.
[http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B1RiCWja6I-tY2FlZDA1ZGItNzQ2Yi00MDc0LWExYzAtZGQwMzExODlmMjJl&hl=en]




going a level up.. at an organism level why is Survival at the heart of every organism??? i mean why is it that every organism has a tendency to survive???? what gives it this character when competition is faced??? how come every organism at it's birth is able to have certain information stored in it even before it learns it??? [like moving it's arms, responding to stimuli.. like turning in the direction of arm when placed on shoulder from behind]

these we explain by saying that NATURE has done it some how...
But being a science student i would like to find something which is just beyond a belief... a possibility, a theory which may explain these facts....

I say that there is a possibility that we are the result of an experiment on artificial intelligence by ET... initially i may sound crazy and u may say that there is nthng like ET... lets put it one by one...


1. there's some information which is encoded in DNA.. WHO encoded it?? if u say that cells have adopted this
molecule to store information plzz do care to tell me how.
2. Are the similarities between DNA and COMPUTER [watch the link i've posted] purely accidental??
3. How come we are born with certain information already installed into our brain?


1.2. there's some information which is encoded in DNA..
computing is a science that would remain same at any place in the universe.. so the comparision that's done is valid when we talk about ET.. after the comparision i'd say that the similarities are not accidental.
thats the reason the GENETIC code is almost universal... 2 in a number system has the same code in any other
number system... for example 101 represents 5 in binary system and is always 101... thats the reason why UUU always codes for phenylalanine...
3. How come we are born with certain information already installed into our brain?
it is one of the very basic characters of an artificial intelligence. All the basic information is fed into the in accessible part of the memory [by in accessible i mean that the info. in this part cannot be changed by the AI]. Our human brain too has this information reserved in it.. and the basic components between AI and any organism are the same




i may have not presented my views clearly... summary is that we are the result of an alien creation.. any furthur progress in this statement can be made only through discussion and am very eagerly waiting for your queries,comments and compliments :D
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Postby bitsian003 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:44 pm

guys plzz post any comment after viewing this... just as a comfort to me...
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Postby JackBean » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:51 pm

1) not everything develops from small to big. Just think about how many small dogs we have, which all come from wolfs. Also, dinosaurs are not our ancestors.

2) the code is such universal, because it was the first thing, which evolved and thus is it conserved throughout whole life

3) because if the organism didn't have tendency to survive, it would probably die, before it had offspring
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
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Postby bitsian003 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:56 pm

1. But we would be relatively easy to formed than dinosaurs y then dinos before us???

2. How can u say that it is the first thing that evolved?

3. why should it produce any offspring at all????
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Postby JackBean » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:18 pm

1. do you think so? What is easier to form in accordance to you - whales or humans? Dinosaurs or thale cress?

3. because we die eventually, so, if you do not produce offspring, nothing will be left after you and thus you will be blind branch
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

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Postby bitsian003 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:26 pm

1. am really not sure....
3. thats what am asking here... y is the survival and propagation of our race so important to us???? what imparts us this quality....

my answer is that.. as i've mentioned in my post.. We are the AI for an ET... when u r out of iron and other minerals or metals... when ur needs exceeds production capability... u need something that is self producing.... thats what we do... it is present in our brain.... it is how we all are defined....
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Postby Darby » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:35 pm

Do some investigation of the RNA world.

And dinosaurs aren't more complex than we are.
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Re: creation

Postby bitsian003 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:03 am

ok.. i will surely... but can you tell me for sure that the similarities between DNA and computers is purely accidental???
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Re: creation

Postby robsabba » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:11 pm

bitsian003 wrote:we all know that DNA stores information required for synthesis of various proteins and thus for the life... who actually gave it the information? [who encoded it]

There was no "who." The original self-replicating molecule may have been RNA, which can act as its own enzyme. DNA and genes coding for specific proteins evolved later.


bitsian003 wrote:why is it that the code is ALMOST universal?

It is universal do to common ancestry. It is ALMOST universal because of redundancy in the code.


bitsian003 wrote:going a level up.. at an organism level why is Survival at the heart of every organism??? i mean why is it that every organism has a tendency to survive???? what gives it this character when competition is faced??? how come every organism at it's birth is able to have certain information stored in it even before it learns it??? [like moving it's arms, responding to stimuli.. like turning in the direction of arm when placed on shoulder from behind]

If an organism does not have an instinct to survive and reproduce, it will die and leave no decendants. In other words, it would be eliminated by natural selection.

bitsian003 wrote:these we explain by saying that NATURE has done it some how...
But being a science student i would like to find something which is just beyond a belief... a possibility, a theory which may explain these facts....

The term Nature just represents natural laws.

bitsian003 wrote:1. there's some information which is encoded in DNA.. WHO encoded it?? if u say that cells have adopted this
molecule to store information plzz do care to tell me how.

See above. We do not have all the details on abiogenesis.

bitsian003 wrote:2. Are the similarities between DNA and COMPUTER [watch the link i've posted] purely accidental??

Please specify what similarities you are referring to.

bitsian003 wrote:3. How come we are born with certain information already installed into our brain?

Can you give us an example of such "information" already installed in our brain?


bitsian003 wrote:1.2. there's some information which is encoded in DNA..
computing is a science that would remain same at any place in the universe.. so the comparision that's done is valid when we talk about ET.. after the comparision i'd say that the similarities are not accidental.
thats the reason the GENETIC code is almost universal... 2 in a number system has the same code in any other
number system... for example 101 represents 5 in binary system and is always 101... thats the reason why UUU always codes for phenylalanine...

Common ancestry demands the code be universal.

bitsian003 wrote:3. How come we are born with certain information already installed into our brain?
it is one of the very basic characters of an artificial intelligence. All the basic information is fed into the in accessible part of the memory [by in accessible i mean that the info. in this part cannot be changed by the AI]. Our human brain too has this information reserved in it.. and the basic components between AI and any organism are the same

Again, please give an example of this information already in our brain when installed. Are you referring to instincts like suckling?
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Re: creation

Postby bitsian003 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:34 am

There was no "who." The original self-replicating molecule may have been RNA, which can act as its own enzyme. DNA and genes coding for specific proteins evolved later.


what i want to know is... how did DNA or RNA make their way into a cell??? did a cell feel that it needs DNA to propagate itself... or did it feel that it can't remember ways to produce the proteins unless it has some hard disk to store the information??? what is it..???

DNA and genes coding for specific proteins evolved later


HOW did that happen?????


It is universal do to common ancestry. It is ALMOST universal because of redundancy in the code.


hmm.. quite convincing.... agreed. :)

If an organism does not have an instinct to survive and reproduce, it will die and leave no decendants. In other words, it would be eliminated by natural selection.


my question is how did it acquire that instinct?????

The term Nature just represents natural laws.


laws by nature are chemical and physical [for instance also consider biological]... chemical and physical laws to a very great extent overlap... biological systems are derived from these very sciences... these sciences hold every where in the universe and hence natural and universal.... can we be sure that this question of survival of fittest fits every biological system across the whole universe...???? if yes please justify.. if no... then this is not natural... i mean it doesn't apply to every biological creature.. hence NO rule that every organism should survive for reproduction and propagation of the species.

Please specify what similarities you are referring to.


umm... all of them....

How come we are born with certain information already installed into our brain


movement of arms,legs...... i mean to say that the information for these actions [like how much electric impulse does it require to create the required response in the muscle etc.,] this information is present in our brain from the time of our birth[ babies move their arms!!!]... how exactly is this information transmitted???? [i dont think wny of us know that] .. my point is that... this information initially had to be BOOTED at any of our ancestral level... they can't just pop out of no where......

i didn't think of suckling before but ya i guess that 1 too.... :)
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Re: creation

Postby JackBean » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:50 am

bitsian003 wrote:
There was no "who." The original self-replicating molecule may have been RNA, which can act as its own enzyme. DNA and genes coding for specific proteins evolved later.


what i want to know is... how did DNA or RNA make their way into a cell??? did a cell feel that it needs DNA to propagate itself... or did it feel that it can't remember ways to produce the proteins unless it has some hard disk to store the information??? what is it..???


There were no cells without DNA. First, there were nucleic acids, which gained the ability to reproduce and later cells came up. You should probably read first some biological material, before you start asking such simple questions


bitsian003 wrote:
If an organism does not have an instinct to survive and reproduce, it will die and leave no decendants. In other words, it would be eliminated by natural selection.


my question is how did it acquire that instinct?????

By natural selection of those, who did escape

bitsian003 wrote:laws by nature are chemical and physical [for instance also consider biological]... chemical and physical laws to a very great extent overlap... biological systems are derived from these very sciences... these sciences hold every where in the universe and hence natural and universal.... can we be sure that this question of survival of fittest fits every biological system across the whole universe...???? if yes please justify.. if no... then this is not natural... i mean it doesn't apply to every biological creature.. hence NO rule that every organism should survive for reproduction and propagation of the species.


And how do you think, that such a creature, without the instinct would pass its genetic information further and have offspring in todays days?

bitsian003 wrote:
Please specify what similarities you are referring to.


umm... all of them....

LOL :lol: that's answer! :lol:

bitsian003 wrote:movement of arms,legs...... i mean to say that the information for these actions [like how much electric impulse does it require to create the required response in the muscle etc.,] this information is present in our brain from the time of our birth[ babies move their arms!!!]... how exactly is this information transmitted???? [i dont think wny of us know that] .. my point is that... this information initially had to be BOOTED at any of our ancestral level... they can't just pop out of no where......

i didn't think of suckling before but ya i guess that 1 too.... :)


In DNA is written, what we can do, but we don't know exactly, how. If we did, we didn't have to learn how to walk and speak for two years.
With the instincts again as above, if the offspring didn't have such an instinct, it wouldn't survive and thus didn't reproduce...
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
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Re: creation

Postby bitsian003 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:01 am

MY GOD!!!! we are revolving again and again around the same question......

There were no cells without DNA. First, there were nucleic acids, which gained the ability to reproduce and later cells came up. You should probably read first some biological material, before you start asking such simple questions


so u are saying that cell was formed around DNA..????

i'm doing here the job of questioning things that are already told... i'm trying to look at them from a different view....
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