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Homosexuality - mutation? Evolutionary reasons.

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Re: Homosexuality - mutation? Evolutionary reasons.

Postby gfrabizi » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:09 am

Darwin420 wrote:Hey guys,

I started this topic so we could generate some interesting ideas and conversations. I haven't really read anything dealing with this topic as of yet. However, I do know that homosexual behaviour exists in other mammals so what do you guys think is the root of homosexual behvaiour? I was thinking if we assume that homosexual behaviour was derived from an allele and homosexual behaviour is favored in conditions where a population is over populating than that could be a reason why homosexual behaviour still exists (in humans). But then I realized using the theory of natural selection does not apply in this situation simply because we are talking about homosexual bahaviour - no zygote and no exchange of alleles therefore, these genes do not contribute to the gene pool.

So what do you guys think? Why is homosexuality still present in humans? I do realize to figure this out, using the theory of natural selection

If you got any input/articles/links regarding this topic, feel free to post. Look forward to your ideas.

could you note some of these animals please? along with the noting of domestic vs wild?
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Postby alextemplet » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:50 pm

Here's some examples of homosexuality among animals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
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Postby Darwin420 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:56 pm

Interesting. Pygmy chimp is a mammal that shows high amounts of homosexuality, in wiki they claim they are an animal that shows the highest homosexuality activity.

Want to know another interesting fact? Humans (as a whole) also show high homosexual activities in comparison to other animals. Another significant thing, what is our closest relative? The one that shares 96 + of our genetic material? The pygmy chimp.

What I am saying is, this possibly right here can be evidence supporting that homosexuality can be determined /or partially by genetics.

Any responses? What about you gfrabizi?
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Postby alextemplet » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:31 am

That does sound like an interesting argument for a genetic cause, although I still think that not all cases of homosexuality are genetic. I give my previous prison scenario again as an example. Is it possible that homosexuality can have a variety of causes, and perhaps not all cases are caused by the same factors?
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Postby Darwin420 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:48 am

Yes, I agree with you fully. I just thought the pygmy chimp case is interesting and supports that genetics contribute to this behaviour.
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Re:

Postby gfrabizi » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:11 pm

alextemplet wrote:Here's some examples of homosexuality among animals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

no I mean real source...wiki means that anyone could put that there, making any claim unreliable. give me a text book or possibly a university/government site if you want to quote a website. but stick with text, since they're used and accepted in schools.
Last edited by gfrabizi on Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

Postby gfrabizi » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:20 pm

Darwin420 wrote:Interesting. Pygmy chimp is a mammal that shows high amounts of homosexuality, in wiki they claim they are an animal that shows the highest homosexuality activity.

Want to know another interesting fact? Humans (as a whole) also show high homosexual activities in comparison to other animals. Another significant thing, what is our closest relative? The one that shares 96 + of our genetic material? The pygmy chimp.

What I am saying is, this possibly right here can be evidence supporting that homosexuality can be determined /or partially by genetics.

Any responses? What about you gfrabizi?

yea...what exactly is meant when you say homosexuality activity, for you see there are many descriptions for that word homosexual in it self, and activities might climb from sex with same gender to acting like opposite gender. so please be specific. see that link that is presented by alextemplet is interesting, but they themselves describe that there are differences in meaning amongst humans in general and in referrence towards animals as they are different. You see, homosexuality is the sexuality of a person, that means they are atractive to same gender, which means they like being in sexual activities with the same gender. therefore man likes the penis and woman likes the vagina (not being mean with this, just specific...if I come across as mean, I really am not trying to do so so sorry for anyone who reads it as such). if you take that claim to the animal kingdom, it could havea similar or different meaning as to how they behave. so like I said, could this be explained a little better...I must admit I do not look into this kind of thing normaly cause I normaly don't care. but your ideas are interesting when there has been zero observations before recent years that mintion homosexuality in the animal kingdom.
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Re: Homosexuality - mutation? Evolutionary reasons.

Postby Darwin420 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:57 pm

Ok. Homosexual behaviour in this context = doing sexual things with the same sex (i.e. sex). You should know this.
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Postby Darwin420 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:18 pm

"but your ideas are interesting when there has been zero observations before recent years that mintion homosexuality in the animal kingdom."

We are in the animal kingdom F.Y.I.
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Postby alextemplet » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:02 am

Yeah, if there was no homosexuality in the animal kingdom, I suspect the current debates over gay marriage would be pointless, since there'd be no gay humans. Just like politicians, to get us all arguing over nothing . . .

As for the Wiki article, look at the references it cites, if the article itself isn't reliable enough for you.
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Re:

Postby gfrabizi » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:18 am

Darwin420 wrote:"but your ideas are interesting when there has been zero observations before recent years that mintion homosexuality in the animal kingdom."

We are in the animal kingdom F.Y.I.

Im sorry, but I dont refer to humans as animals, I mean virus' aren't refered to as single cells either. we carry most our characteristics with that organism (if you call it that). haven't you seen the matrix? :wink:

okay Im jokin', but perhaps by animal character, I mean non human animals since our conversation involves that as part of my question.
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Postby Darwin420 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:30 am

Hahha your comparison is a little extreme don't you think?
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