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http://xkxy.org:Bible exact description of DNA and ATP

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Postby Dov Henis » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:24 am

[quote="Linn": ...to EDIT go to your post and on the right hand side above you will see the EDIT next to quote.... [/quote]

Thanks for the advice, but there is no EDIT next to QUOTE in the version I have been seeing...
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Postby Dov Henis » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:28 am

Hurray!

EDIT has just been introduced next to QUOTE by ex-machina...

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Postby Dov Henis » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:51 am

AstusAleator wrote:First of all, I would like to hear what Dov has to say about the interpretation of the hebrew word for day.


Being a (retired) scientist I have no "interpretation" of a dictionary word in addition to its dictionary and/or common meaning. Yom (Day) has TENS of time-related meanings depending on its compounded partner-word or on the context of usage. You are probably acquainted with one example, Yom Kippur, day of atonement...

However, not being religious I refrain from and avoid participation in religious homiletical interpretation/exposition/exegesis...

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Re: Dov Henis

Postby Dongsheng Zhang » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:32 pm

Dov Henis: Do you know the structure of DNA? Please read following sentence by sentence, I hope know your answer: who is the psychiatrist.

The Ezekiel Code with DNA Molecule: Fifteen Similarities
Dongsheng Zhang
Or see 12-02-2006, http://xkxy.org

A 2500-year old enigma (Bible, Ezeliel1:4 to 3:6, consecutive 1000-word paragraphs), we first call it as “Ezekiel Code”, recorded a mysterious thing in a “mirage”: the “four living creatures” were imagining an image of human in a “whirlwind”. Exegetes tried to explain what it was in that vision, but all was so difficult. We compared the Ezekiel Code with the molecular biological discoveries (DNA structure and functions) and gained the surprising results: both of “Ezekiel Code” and biological scientists described the same event, human DNA is right-handed double helical molecule that composed by four kinds of nucleotides encoding the human biological body, even though they had different “civilization” and used different “terminological words”. This study verified the concordance of Ezekiel Code with DNA from its major figure, characters to details: fifteen similarities.



1A: A sentence in Bible Ezekiel Book: “… … a whirlwind came out of the north, … … Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. … … they had the likeness of a man” (KJV, Ezekiel 1:4-5).

1B: The biological scientist definite that human DNA molecule is a “right-handed” double “helical chain” that is composed by “four kinds of nucleotides” that they encoding the “human biological body”.

1C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw a DNA “helical chain” as a “ whirlwind”; saw “came out of the north” as DNA “right-handed” helical; saw the “four kinds of nucleotides” as “four living creatures”; saw “encoding human biological body” as “form of a man”.



2A: Ezekiel described the four living creatures: “Their wings were spread out upward; … one touching the wing of another creature on either side.” “and each had two wings covering its body”.

2B: The biological scientist described the four nucleotides in a DNA molecule: One kind of the chemical bonds is between the phosphates and the sugars to form sugar-phosphate backbone for linking one nucleotide to another. Another kind of chemical bonds is hydrogen bonds between complementary nucleotides (A-T, C-G), responsible for establishing and preserving DNA’s special structure and functions, such as, the bases are largely buried in the interior of the DNA and are kept away from water.

2C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw “bond between the phosphate and the sugar” as “wing touching the wing of another”; saw “the bases are largely buried in the interior of the DNA and are kept away from water” as “wings covering its body”.



3A: Ezekiel described the structure of the four living creatures: “ had four faces”, “ the face of a man”, “face of a lion”, “the face of an ox” and “the face of an eagle”

3B: The biological scientist described the four nucleotides: the nucleotides have four different nitrogenous bases identified as A, T, C and G (faces) respectively.

3C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw the nitrogenous bases A, T, C and G as the face of a man, lion, ox and eagle.



4A: Ezekiel described the structure of the four living creatures: “their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze”.

4B: The biological scientist described: each nucleotide having one phosphate group. Indeed, the color of crystal phosphate is bright yellow just like the “burnished bronze”.

4C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw the phosphate as “burnished bronze” in the “feet”.



5A: Ezekiel described the structure of the four living creatures: “they had the hands of a man”.

5B: The biological scientist described: each nucleotide having a deoxyribose (five-carbon structure).

5C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw a deoxyribose (five-carbon sugar) as a hand of man, opening up a five-fingered hand indicates the number “five”.





6A: Ezekiel described the structure of the four living creatures: “The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches”.

6B: The biological scientist described the four nucleotides: In a living cell, four deoxynucleoside triphosphate (dNTP, dATP, dCTP, dGTP and dTTP) containing three phosphate-groups with two “high-energy bonds” for driving the polymerization of nucleotides to form new DNA strands.

6C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw the “high-energy bonds” in the dNTP as “burning coals of fire or like torches” in living creatures.



7A: Ezekiel described: “Fire moved back and forth among the creatures”.

7B: The biological scientist found the “high-energy” of dNTP are transferred from ATP.

7C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw “high-energy” transferring among the nucleotides as “fire” moving among the creatures.



8A: Ezekiel described the structure of the four living creatures: “The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning”.

8B: The biological scientist found: A lot of dNTP are moved to the “work stations” hydrolysis and releasing energy when they are assembled to form a new DNA strand with a rate of 50 per second in human. A total of 6 billions nucleotides is needed for the formation of daughter strands in a human cell.

8C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw a lot of dNTP are soon moving to the “work stations” as “The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning”.



9A: Ezekiel described: “a wheel on the ground beside each creature”.

9B: Biological scientists discovered that ring-shaped enzymes involved in DNA metabolism vary greatly in sequence.

9C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw “ring-shaped proteins (enzymes)” beside each nucleotide as “wheels” beside each creature.



10A: Ezekiel described: “When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved”.

10B: Biological scientists emphases that helicases (a hexmer-ring protein) cannot be formed and not move on DNA (either 5’ to 3’ or 3’ to 5’direction) without binding NTP because the helicases are NTP-driven motor proteins.

10C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw the helicases, ring-shaped proteins, are NTP-driven motor proteins, as “when the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved”.



11A: Ezekiel described the structure of the wheels: “be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.”

11B: Biological scientists emphases that the structures of proteins are more complex and larger than nucleotides. Helicases and ATPase have the characteristic multisubunit ring-shaped structures. For example, F-ATPase, found by Paul Boyer and John Walker, the Nobel laureates of 1997 (Yoshida and Muneyuki et al 2001), were described: ATP synthase is a large protein complex (-500kDa) with a complicated structure. It is composed of two linked multi-subunit (22-27 subunits) complexes, called F0 and F1. In binding-change model, F0 and F1 function as a pair of rotary motors liked by a central rotor and a peripheral stator. Rotation of the ring of c-subunit in F0 is proposed to allow protons to be carried … … A prominent part of the F0 motor consists of an oligomeric c-subunit assembly in the shape of a ring, which consists of 10 to 15 monomers (Cross 2004). The structure of the main part of the ATP synthase show the tiny motor made from 3,500 amino acids is remarkably reminiscent of man-made motor (Yoshida and Muneyuki et al 2001).

11C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw the “composed of two linked multi-subunit (22-27 subunits) complexes”, as “a wheel intersecting a wheel. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around”.



12A: Ezekiel described: “Spread out above the heads of the living creatures was what looked like an expanse, sparkling like ice, and awesome”.

12B: According to the biological books, the membrane separates the cell from the outside world. The membrane architecture is a lipid bilayer and proteins embedded in the bilayer.

12C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw structure of membrane looked like “ice” or “crystal” from cytoplasm toward outside.



13A: Ezekiel described: “when the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters”.

13B: According to the biological books, the “space” inside of cell under the membrane called cytoplasm. The entire cell including nucleus is full of water and also the enzyme-catalyzed reactions take place in aqueous solutions.

13C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw structure of cytoplasm looked like “rushing waters”.



14A: Ezekiel described: “In it was a scroll, which he unrolled before me. On both sides of it were written words”.

14B: According to the characteristics of genome and genes, the length of a human DNA molecule twines into a “roll” of chromosome. Both strands of DNA are sequenced with A, T, C, and G (words), one is up side another is down side.

14C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw structure of chromosome, genome and genes looked like a “scroll”.



15A: Ezekiel recorded: “eat this scroll I am giving you and fill your stomach with it.’ So I ate it, and it tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth”.

15B: According to the biological books, the DNA, a unique biological material, certainly can be eaten and contains sugar (pentose sugar), “sweet” indeed.

15C: Obviously, Ezekiel demonstrated that “scroll” was DNA, a biological material "scroll", but a common book made from wood, silk, cloth, paper or stone.



Face the facts of Ezekiel Code and biological scientific discoveries, we first conformed the concordance of the Ezekiel Code to DNA. The major figure, characters and details in the 2500-year old image exactly matched the structures and functions of DNA and nucleotides. It is impertinency if adjudicate it as a coincidence by accident. If produce a carton movie according to the consecutive 1000-word paragraphs that might be a nice teaching-film for introducing DNA to public.



Dongsheng Zhang, Cincinnati, free-lancer, 12-02-2006, dongshengzhang_1@yahoo.com
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Postby AstusAleator » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:21 pm

I like how the C portion of every argument starts with "obviously". Oh yes, it's Obvious that they're desperately grasping for straws.

It's funny that people feel the need to extrapolate vague passages of the bible to "prove" things. The only thing that it "proves" to me is their inherent lack of true faith.
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Postby mith » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:19 am

if it was obvious, you wouldn't need to state it, obviously everyone would see it first time they read it.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
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Postby Linn » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:53 am

in our search for the truth, whether it be religious or scientific truth, we should be guided by sound principles. Only the highest standards of evidence,should be considered, otherwise we can easily be misled.
Effort is needed to learn the difference between fact and speculation, between reality and deception.

this applies to both science and religion.
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

~ George washington Carver
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Postby Dov Henis » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:54 am

- Addressing science and religion as parallel entities is grossly grating.

- "Search for truth" applies only to religion. "Truth" is not a scientifically
usable term.

- Scientifically there either is or isn't evidence/data. There are no grades
of evidence.

- Religiously evidence is what a person accepts/believes.

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Postby Dongsheng Zhang » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:54 pm

mith wrote:if it was obvious, you wouldn't need to state it, obviously everyone would see it first time they read it.


16A: Ezekiel saw: nobody know the structure of DNA.
16B: The biological scientist saw: lots of scientists do not know the structure of DNA.
16C: Obviously, not anyone would see it first time they read it.
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Re: An Analogy Of Science/Religion

Postby Dongsheng Zhang » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:32 pm

Dov Henis wrote:An Analogy Of Science/Religion

The psychiatrist draws a straight vetrticle line on a sheet of paper, shows it to the patient and asks: "what do you see?"

Patient, somewhat excited: "A standing naked woman..."

The psychiatrist draws a horizontal line, shows it and asks: "What do you see now?"

Patient, more excitedly: "A lying naked woman..."

The psychiatrist now draws a 90-deg angle and asks: "And what do you see now?"

Patient, overcome with excitement: "A naked woman lying with her legs up..."

"Man", says the psychiatrist, "You're sex crazy!"

"Doc", says the patient, "It's you who draws these sexy drawings, not I!"



Scientists see the lines, religious persons see the drawings...


Dov


The psychiatrist draws two lines merging into one line, shows it and asks: "What do you see now?"

Patient, more excitedly: "Only one line !!! ".

"Man", says the psychiatrist, "You just open your one eye, please see it again with your two eyes."

Patient, more excitedly again: "I do not like to see things with two eyes. That is too true to understanind !"
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Postby Linn » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:49 am

Dov Henis wrote:- Addressing science and religion as parallel entities is grossly grating.

- "Search for truth" applies only to religion. "Truth" is not a scientifically
usable term.

- Scientifically there either is or isn't evidence/data. There are no grades
of evidence.

- Religiously evidence is what a person accepts/believes.

Dov


Of course there is grades of evidence.
Empirical evidence is the basis for scientific truth.

Religiously evidence is what a person accepts/believes.


You accept and believe evolution.

What has been happening is Dawkins followers are on a crusade aginst religion.

I dont care if evolution is taught in schools. What I am aginst is the way it is worded in textbooks.

Imagine if my textbook had stated "The appendix has no function"
No I always read "it seems to have no function" or we do not know if it has a function etc...

Which we now know conclusively that it does.

Yet textbooks say things all the time about evolution:
'Primitive whales evolved during the mid-Eocene period, about 50 million years ago. Fossil remains indicate that whales evolved from hoofed land mammals'

Do you really believe the wording should be that conclusive?

Instead of the correct way to word it:

"Some scientists think that Primitive whales evolved during the mid-Eocene period, about 50 million years ago. Fossil remains have some similarities that seem to indicate that whales evolved from hoofed land mammals'

what do you think of a more precise and scientific way to word things?

Imagine I am an atheist when you answer that, because you seem predudiced against religious people. :?


_at_ Dongsheng
So I hope who can send the two articles to Richard Dawkins and Francis Collins, their commentary of the articles will reveal the final winner of the hundred-year debate: whether God existed.


I cant speak about Mr. Collins who although being the head aof the US Governemnt Genome Project, finds the nerve to be religious and believe in ID?? He cant be very scientific :roll

And Dawkins who is on a crusade aginst religious idiots, and who is not open to any reasoning.

And I dont think we who are religious need to proove our beliefs, but defend ourselves when we (not our religion)are accused of being un scientific simply because we do not believe in evolution..
or believe God used evolution. Yes I am being sarcastic :wink:
Last edited by Linn on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Again re science and re religion

Postby Dov Henis » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:34 am

Dov Henis wrote:- Addressing science and religion as parallel entities is grossly grating.
- "Search for truth" applies only to religion. "Truth" is not a scientifically
usable term.
- Scientifically there either is or isn't evidence/data. There are no grades
of evidence.
- Religiously evidence is what a person accepts/believes.



Recently I entered in my blog a note about some religious Jewish "scientists". I realize now that it applies also to "scientists" members of other religions. Moreover, I now should'nt be surprised to learn that, religiously typical, religious denominations would be involved in a grand discussion to establish whose god is The God-of-and-since-singularity. The note's link:

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-P81pQcU1 ... cq=1&p=177

From:
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-P81pQcU1 ... G_Q--?cq=1

Solution of science-religion incongruity by some Jews.

Some of the Jewish or Israeli-Jewish parallels of the AAAS top officers have adopted an 'evolutionarily' very interesting, even if irritatingly hypocritical, attitude in regards to the basic inherent science-religion incongruity. First they claim or imply that THEIR concepts-attitudes of 'Jewish thought' represent THE 'legitimate/real' traditional Jewish religious positions. Next they hypocritically and arrogantly, with duly interpreted citations from Jewish literature, appropriate for THEIR Jewish god all of science at all times past and future, from prior to the big-bang until the end of the cosmos and beyond it, thus explaining that each and every and all the totality of scientific phenomena and laws and comprehensions in the universe/nature are revelations of THEIR Jewish god's program and doings. This allows them to do what the AAAS does, i.e. to maintain two separate realms, a natural and 'spiritual' realms, not only without embarassment of incongruity between the two but, furthermore, with religious and phenotypic pride.

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