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http://xkxy.org:Bible exact description of DNA and ATP

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Postby ughaibu » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:13 am

On the viability of creation/design as an explanation for life, etc.
1) design has no supporting evidence, where is the designer?
2) design fails to simple and obvious objections, who designed the designer?
3) design doesn't explain anything, how does design work?
4) design can not be researched or investigated
5) design has no implications, it is irrelevant and unexploitable
6) design relies on unknown imaginary entities
On points 1-5 design has nothing going for it, it's impossible for an alternative hypothesis to be less satisfactory than design on these points.
On point 6, design contravenes the principle of parsimony by unnecessarily appealing to imaginary entities, this has two consequences, 1) to be more logically satisfactory than design an alternative hypothesis only has to avoid introducing unnecessary unknown entities, 2) there is a finite number of known entities but an infinite number of unknown entities, by avoiding the appeal to unknown entities an alternative hypothesis has an infinitely greater probability, than design, of being correct.
It follows from this that "bananas cannibalising manatees" is both more logically satisfactory and infinitely more likely to be the correct explanation, than is "design". I'm sure that nobody has any difficulty realising that "bananas cannibalising manatees" is quite useless as an explanation for anything, when it's understood that "design" is infinitely less satisfactory as an explanation, one gets an inkling of the dumbfounding depth of absurdity represented by "design".
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Postby loveangel » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:16 am

linn's right, it is up to you whether you believe in science or the bible.... both of the two has facts and due to this, everybody will be confused... don, we are not forcing you to believe in religous things.
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Please Ughaibu explain following:

Postby Dongsheng Zhang » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:36 pm

Please Ughaibu explain following:


1A: A sentence in Bible Ezekiel Book: “… … a whirlwind came out of the north, … … Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. … … they had the likeness of a man” (KJV, Ezekiel 1:4-5).

1B: The biological scientist definite that human DNA molecule is a “right-handed” double “helical chain” that is composed by “four kinds of nucleotides” that they encoding the “human biological body”.

1C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw a DNA “helical chain” as a “ whirlwind”; saw “came out of the north” as DNA “right-handed” helical; saw the “four kinds of nucleotides” as “four living creatures”; saw “encoding human biological body” as “form of a man”.

Which is the Science? Which is the Religion? What is the Different?
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Postby ughaibu » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:05 pm

It explains itself, 'there was a whirl-wind from which emerged four creatures', unless you're unfamiliar with the vocabulary employed it's difficult to see how to make it clearer or more "obvious".
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Postby AstusAleator » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:02 am

Dongsheng I suggest you read the entire passage in Ezekiel. Youll find that the passages you quote in your arguments are picked and chosen from a much larger description, and put together in ways that seem to indicate something. If you take into account the entire description though, it really doesnt seem to have much correlation to DNA overall.

People in the times of Ezekiel werent so primitive that they wouldnt have understood heritability. If the author gained knowledge of the structure of DNA and its function, he could have attempted a rudimentary description. Theres no need for confusing vague allegories or metaphors.

Its more likely that the author was making a metaphor or allegory about something that was a current issue of the time, and attempting to impress upon the people the power of God. Or he was just crazy. :D Did that ever cross your mind?


If you can't tell the science apart from the religion, you have a lot of learning to do about both.
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Please AstusAleator explain following:

Postby Dongsheng Zhang » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:41 pm

Please AstusAleator explain following:

Which is the Science? Which is the Religion? What is the Same and Different?

2A: Ezekiel described the four living creatures: “Their wings were spread out upward; … one touching the wing of another creature on either side.” “and each had two wings covering its body”.

2B: The biological scientist described the four nucleotides in a DNA molecule: One kind of the chemical bonds is between the phosphates and the sugars to form sugar-phosphate backbone for linking one nucleotide to another. Another kind of chemical bonds is hydrogen bonds between complementary nucleotides (A-T, C-G), responsible for establishing and preserving DNA’s special structure and functions, such as, the bases are largely buried in the interior of the DNA and are kept away from water.

2C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw “bond between the phosphate and the sugar” as “wing touching the wing of another”; saw “the bases are largely buried in the interior of the DNA and are kept away from water” as “wings covering its body”.
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Postby AstusAleator » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:33 am

Yes Dongsheng, It's obviously obvious. It's also "obvious" that you've payed attention to everything I've said in my previous replies to you.

Here's what's obvious to me:
1a. You'd rather cut and paste someone else's argument and demand ppl to explain than make your own argument

1b. You don't actually understand the structure of DNA and RNA, which is why you must rely on quotes. (There's a 5th nucleotide, uracil... does that blow your mind?) The 4 nucleotides don't all touch eachother, only 2 at a time, and they are paired.

1c. You think you've found the answer, despite the fact that it's based on pure speculation, and nothing I can say will change your mind. With that in mind, I'm posting this more for other people's benefit than yours.

I'd also speculate that there's a bit of a language barrier going on here... am I right?
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Postby Fromage » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:55 pm

alextemplet wrote:You know, us religious people are really just stoners who take acid to induce "religious" visions and experiences. It's all a giant fraud to get your money. :roll:



The religious community sure is going to be mad when they realize you've revealed their secret!!
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Postby Dongsheng Zhang » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:37 am

AstusAleator wrote:
1b. You don't actually understand the structure of DNA and RNA, which is why you must rely on quotes. (There's a 5th nucleotide, uracil... does that blow your mind?) The 4 nucleotides don't all touch eachother, only 2 at a time, and they are paired.


You misunderstand the the structure of DNA and RNA, which only 4 nucleotides in DNA ( ATCG) or RNA (AUCG), in the earth no any DNA contain 5 nucleotides have been found. Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DNA_ ... ucture.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA
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The last line of the humankind origin

Postby Dongsheng Zhang » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:27 pm

Re Fromage: "The religious community sure is going to be mad when they realize you've revealed their secret!! "[/quote]


C: Obviously, I hope friends you to see some biologist friends of your. More deeply understand the DNA for much understanding the evolution and Ezekiel book CH1. Chromsomes and DNA and Ezekiel is the last line of the humankind origin. Scientist is hard working on this. Bible had waited human to find DNA for thousands years.


See Full-Text, http://xkxy.org
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Postby AstusAleator » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:08 pm

Dongsheng, I'll concede your ripost to my paranthetical statement. there are 4 nucleotides in any one molecule of DNA or RNA. I'm not going to get into it any further or it will just end up as quibbling over things that don't really matter. I think I've said all that I need to on the matter.
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You are invited as the reviewer

Postby Dongsheng Zhang » Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:31 pm

Re All:

If you want, I invite you as the reviewer to comment the article "Ezekiel Code with DNA Molecule: Fifteen Similarities ", and give me the comments to each A, B and C sentences.

For example, what means in the sentence 1A, what characters in the description. I think it is similar with DNA based on these characters in 1A, since DNA have all of these characters:

“whirlwind”-- double helical DNA
“came out of the north”--“right-handed” helix
“four living creatures”-- four kinds of nucleotides (DNA, ATCG)
“likeness of a man-- encoding the human biological body

And I got the 1C.
Please try search any things to get your 1B, if it is better than mine, then give me a comment.
Then 2A, 3A,…… 15A, B and C.
I hope you get more reasonable B and C from 1 to 15 than DNA to negate mine.


Ezekiel Code with DNA Molecule: Fifteen Similarities
By Dongsheng Zhang
(Full-text, http://xkxy.org)

Part 1 of 15:

1A: A sentence in Bible Ezekiel Book: “… … a whirlwind came out of the north, … … Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. … … they had the likeness of a man” (KJV, Ezekiel 1:4-5).
1B: The biological scientist definite that human DNA molecule is a “right-handed” double “helical chain” that is composed by “four kinds of nucleotides” that they encoding the “human biological body”.
1C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw a DNA “helical chain” as a “ whirlwind”; saw “came out of the north” as DNA “right-handed” helical; saw the “four kinds of nucleotides” as “four living creatures”; saw “encoding human biological body” as “form of a man”.

Part 2 of 15:
2A: Ezekiel described the four living creatures: “Their wings were spread out upward; … one touching the wing of another creature on either side.” “and each had two wings covering its body”.
2B: The biological scientist described the four nucleotides in a DNA molecule: One kind of the chemical bonds is between the phosphates and the sugars to form sugar-phosphate backbone for linking one nucleotide to another. Another kind of chemical bonds is hydrogen bonds between complementary nucleotides (A-T, C-G), responsible for establishing and preserving DNA’s special structure and functions, such as, the bases are largely buried in the interior of the DNA and are kept away from water.
2C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw “bond between the phosphate and the sugar” as “wing touching the wing of another”; saw “the bases are largely buried in the interior of the DNA and are kept away from water” as “wings covering its body”.
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