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Are monitors venomous?

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Are monitors venomous?

Postby Skeletor Rinpoche » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:49 pm

I've been researching the topic of whether or not komodo dragons/ other captive monitors rely on rotting flesh to produce harmful bacteria, or if they are born with it. I previously thought that they can only have harmful bacteria from eating rotting flesh, but studies from Dr. Bryan Fry say otherwise. I've heard both sides, i was just wondering what everyone thought.

Heres the link to the venom research in monitors from Dr. Fry.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/science/venom-research-badmouths-goannas/2005/11/17/1132016892739.html
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Postby ATP Bmole » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:34 pm

I'm not educated on the subject.

Hows about every wakes up and POSTS!

BJOURR!
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Postby kasied07 » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:01 pm

a gentleman comes into my work and he has a savana monitor.. he doesnt said it is venomous.. all of his friends play with it.. so i dont think so.. i will find out... just message me if you have questions...
ps: the only thing the gentleman tels me is that it is 18'' and it walks around the house and doesnt like to stay in his cage..
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Postby geonyzl » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:53 am

well in the wild monitor lizards dont have a hygiene to brush their teeth. They always eat some wild prey or a carcass along the way. The carcass may harbor so many decomposing bacteria and that would stay in their mouth when they eaten this thing. But if it was taken cared off like a pet, well bacteria would not be prolific like what in the wild monitor lizards because the food item they eat were clean and safe. Commensal bacteria might be present because they are naturally found in the animal. And if the pet lizard bite you, you might suffer only to secondary infection, and not fatal.
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Postby Skeletor Rinpoche » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:05 pm

The misconception is that the only reason why their bites are fatal is from rotting meat causing the production of bacteria. Dr Fry's findings are based on the fact that a zookeeper was severly ill after being bitten by a komodo dragon, who was fed fresh meat its entire life. He found that there was a long gland running the length of the mouth that he believes is the source of the bacteria. So this discussion really breaks down into whatyou think is venomous- an animal born with glands that produce deadly bacteria(Dr. Fry's defn.) or an animal with specialized glands that produce thousands of inhibiting enyzmes and proteins
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Postby Dr.Stein » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:34 am

keef wrote:i heard once that their saliva is poisonous

We have a research to investigate Varanus' saliva (including komodo and monitors). We got many parasites and bacteria from their saliva, which could trigger infection when we are exposed to. It is due to their lifestyle, they eat carcass and never brush their teeth after meal 8)
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yes they are

Postby venomdoc » Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:44 pm

We have been doing quite a bit of work on this of late. We published a paper a few months back in the scientific journal Nature. Here is a link to the paper http://www.venomdoc.com/downloads/2006_BGF_Nature_squamate_venom_press.pdf

and a link to my site where we had a nice long discussion about the findings http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1858

Any bite can lead to infection. However, that has nothing to do with the early emerging symptoms from a varanid bite (prolonged bleeding, stinging, muscle pain, dizziness etc). These animals have a very large gland running the length of the lower jaw. It is the exact same gland as the venom gland of the gila monster. The venom produced by a varanid lizard also shares many toxins with the gila monster, such as phospholipase A2 toxins that block the aggregation of platelets, an essential aspect of being able to form a blood clot to stop bleeding. This works well with the deep wounds produced by the serrated teeth. Other components include potent hypotensive toxins, that would help knock a prey item out.

The bacteria have been the classic red herring. The glands do not produce bacteria. They produce venom. The bacteria have nothing to do with any of effects other than those that show up after a day or two. These would have nothing to do with prey capture and are an incidental side effect that would also occur from a vulture nip.

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Postby Skeletor Rinpoche » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:04 am

That pretty much sums it up
"Ignorance, the root and stem of every evil."

~Plato
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The gland would not produce bacteria

Postby geonyzl » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:44 am

I think there is no gland that would produce a certain kind of bacteria but, there are some glands that would attract certain species of bacteria and colonized along the ducts.:)
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Re: The gland would not produce bacteria

Postby Dr.Stein » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:58 am

geonyzl wrote:I think there is no gland that would produce a certain kind of bacteria but, there are some glands that would attract certain species of bacteria and colonized along the ducts.:)

Of course not. Some glands e.g. mucus provides a good environment for bacteria to live and grow there.
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