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hear the spring peepers-endangered

Discussion of the distribution and abundance of living organisms and how these properties are affected by interactions between the organisms and their environment

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Postby Ken Ramos » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:11 am

An interesting link Lynne, do you think that pathogens could be the cause of the decline in the population of Pseudacris crucifer (Spring Peeper)? It is something to consider. The article seems to suggest long term effects of pathogens causing the population decline of only some amphibians.

Judging from the history of your particular area, I would still lean towards the possibility of PCB contamination causing the decline in population of the P. crucifer. However your research is good in considering other causative agents and checking to see if they may also be a valid consideration for the decline of P. crucifer populations. By so doing you will be able to weed out those other possiblilites and lean towards the more stronger evidence, PCB's, as the causative agent. Then again you might find that PCB's are not the causative agent but you are on the right track in considering alternative reasons. This will make your research data more accurate and the facts and conclusions that you may come to more solid and present a better argument for the decline of P. crucifer in your area. :D

As for the etiological, causative agent, referenced in the article, I would look into that and do some light research on it too. I will also do the same on this end and then we can compare notes. :D

On another note, I must say that this is what I have been looking for in many forums. It seems that all of the ones that I have visisted or have become a member of, seem to be vauge or scattered in subject material and no one focused on one particular project and working towards a conclusion, presenting their facts and findings. This is in my opinion one of the best threads on this site. Thank you Lynne for sharing your research and concern for the environment. :D
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Postby Linn » Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:54 pm

Hi Ken

that article mentions ranovirus disease too.
I am going to research that on line
later,
Lynne
PS 'SEE" you on the other forum :lol:
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Postby Ken Ramos » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:18 am

O.k, I have done some looking around and I am sure you have too, so let me throw this in the ring. Chytridiomycosis, an infectious disease that affects amphibians worldwide. Etiological agent=Chytrid fungus. This fungus is capable of causing sporadic deaths in some amphibian populations and 100% in others. It has been implicated in mass die-offs and species extinctions of frogs for the past fifteen years. Origin and true impact on populations are uncertain and under investigation.

The fungus is not new but has been around for some time. The chytrid fungus is Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis (don't ask me to say it! :lol: ) The fungi live in the water or soil, some are parasites of plants and insects. Reproduction is asexual and they have spores that swim through the water. Only the amphibian chytrid fungus is know to infect vertebrate species. Frogs drink and breathe through their skin, so it is thought that the frogs are infected by the spores when their skin comes into contact with the infected water. The fungus is also thought to invade the surface layers of the frogs skin causing damage to the keratin layer. It is not known however how the fungus kills the frog. It could be that the fungus releases toxins that are absorbed through the skin or it may affect water uptake and respiration. I would first consider the later but some fungi do produce toxins. Since however this is a fungal infection I would veer towards a vast network of hyphae causing resporatory problems in the skin and water uptake. However I am no herpitologist. :)

Symptoms of chytridiomycosis include half closed eyes and generally a depressed attitude in the frog and an accumulation of grayish cast off skin. I find this bit of information humorous, due to the fact that I would not know a depressed frog if I saw one. Maybe those I have seen are using Prozaic. :lol:

Now back to being serious. We know that the P. crucifer will begin mating next month and we should be hearing their songs soon, weather and other seasonal changes permitting. I know nothing of New England weather but here in WNC it should be warming a little about that time. Take note of the first time you hear a peeper, jot it down on your calander under the date and note time and outside temperature, barometric pressure would be good to note also if you have a barometer. Begin looking for eggs and if you find them, mark the location. Take photographs of them if you have a camera. If possible check on them daily to see if there have been predators about. Using a simple thermometer take water temperature readings at least two different times daily. Keep an eye out for tadpoles later on. Record all of your findings. You may want to chart them or place them on a graph for reference, this too is important. You need to record as much physcial and atmospheric data as possible during the mating season. Leave water sample and specimen sample findings to a lab for analysis of toxins. Just a thought, a tape recording of the peepers at mating time could be useful to you, as to the sound of the population. Were there many of them or only a few sounding their mating calls? May sound ridiculous but they laughed at Copernicus too, "the sun... the center of the solar system...bah!" :lol:

Well just some thoughts there Lynne. I am still betting on PCB's but we have to cover all bases. If you just jump the gun and go ranting about PCB's alone, they (the EPA), may slam the door on you. :(

I am pleased that you enjoyed my gallery. Those images were taken using a Zeiss Axiostar Plus transmitted light microscope. Some utilizing "circular oblique illumination or COL as we call it. All images are at 7 megapixel, except for those macros, which are taken at 5 megapixel using a Meiji EMZ-13TR stereomicroscope and Sony DSC series digital cameras. I have a modest laboratory set up in my bedroom of all places but space is limited due to the size of my apartment or duplex home. So you could say I sleep with my work. :D The cameras were once "slaved" to my computers but now I operate them independent of the computers. I get better images that away with much better resolution. :D

I am going to research this some more, hopefully I may find some images of the fungus to get an idea of its morphology. I have encountered various aquatic fungi during some of my amebic research, PAM if you recall. OBTW did you read my article on Primary Amebic Meningoencephalitis? If you did...scary huh! :shock: But not to fear the infection is still rare at the moment but that could change due to climatic changes, i.e. golbal warming maybe? Who knows. :D
Ken Ramos, Aviation Ordnanceman USN Ret.
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Postby Linn » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:10 am

Ken, wow thank you!
thank you PCB contributed to the disruption of the good bacteria in the water and led to the proliferation of harmful agents ie bacteria, fungus etc.

Yes that was interesting about symptoms.
I have see frogs exhibit the half closed eyes and grey skin.

I will get those field notes next month.
I have time this year because I am not enrolled in school and have a bit of time.

I also like turtles too

I have two turtles a eastern slider and snapper that found my pond this summer. they were sickly and I treated them w/antibiotic and parasites.shells had fungal infection.
they are much better now.

their names are snapper (he is so ugly hes cute) and Rosey (my grandaughter named her that)

just wonder if same type of fungas as in frogs.
well we dont want to start about that.
Ken, thank you for all your help
later,
Lynne
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Postby Linn » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:51 pm

PS;

now that you told me about GAE and PAM

I am concerned that given the polluted condition here these may be present.

Perhaps I could somehow get a sample to you, if you are interested.

I would hate to see a kid get that.
Lynne
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Postby Ken Ramos » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:02 am

I have tons of samples Lynne. You do to and there is no way to get rid of them. :shock: Acanthamoeba lives in your hot water heater, airconditioner, on your bathroom sink, on your kitchen sink, on a damp towel or wash cloth, in the soil and their cysts can become airborne! :o Naegleria however is found mostly in ponds, lakes, streams, poorly treated swimming pools, anywhere there is warm water. These ameba occur naturally in our environment. Contraction is rare, we are exposed to them every day. It is just at random that someone becomes infected and of course it is usually childern or those with compromised immune systems. Why children? Dunno? :( I once thought maybe because their immune system is not fully developed but the amoeba can infect a healthy grown adult too. Opportunistic is the best way to describe their infectious behavior. :)
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Postby Linn » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:33 pm

I need to read up on ameba.

Acanthameba?
Is that Legioneirs disease?
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Postby canalon » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:24 pm

Linn wrote:I need to read up on ameba.

Acanthameba?
Is that Legioneirs disease?


No. That is Legionella pneumophila, a very common bacteria in many stagnat water that became a problem only when sprayed in aerosol (by your shower head, an air conditioning unit and so on) and inhaled. It is not a really good pathogen and tend to infect mostly immunocompromized persons (elders, sick, infants,....).

This is definitely an opportunistic pathogen that human made a problem by its technology.
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Postby Linn » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:43 pm

oh :) thank you

The more I learn the scarier it gets.

I have heard of whole buildings having to be evacuated because of that.
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Postby Ken Ramos » Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:02 pm

Patrick replied:
No. That is Legionella pneumophila, a very common bacteria in many stagnat water that became a problem only when sprayed in aerosol (by your shower head, an air conditioning unit and so on) and inhaled. It is not a really good pathogen and tend to infect mostly immunocompromized persons (elders, sick, infants,....).

This is definitely an opportunistic pathogen that human made a problem by its technology.
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You are correct in your statement Patrick :D but ameba (acanthamoeba and possibly others) can be a host to Legionella also, as can some other microorganisms. :D
Ken Ramos, Aviation Ordnanceman USN Ret.
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Postby Linn » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:18 am

Hello Ken,

I dont THink I like amebas very much :(

hey now besides there being a Ramos poster,
:?: there is a lynn poster.
weird :?:
coincidence :)

Today was a nice day. Spring is near!

Any way, I am planning to make a video for you
of the habitat in question once Spring is here.

I am too tired to say much tonight.
Regards,
Lynne
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

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Postby Ken Ramos » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:40 am

Lynne said:

I am too tired to say much tonight.


Yeah, my butts drag'n too! Think I will burn the hair off an opossum and call it a night. :lol:
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