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How much ATP a person consumes...?

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How much ATP a person consumes...?

Postby rafay » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:14 pm

The average adult needs about 2000 calories per day. There are a little less than 4 dietary calories (kCal) in a gram of sucrose (table sugar). One mole of sucrose weighs 342.3 grams. A mole of anything is 6.02x10^23 molecules. Dietary fats (usually 18 to 20 carbons) contain approximately 8 dietary calories per gram.
Assuming all of the food that people eat goes to making ATP, approximately how many ATP molecules does the average person make (and use) each day? Explain

Number of ATP per day: _________

Explanation ___________________ ____

What i got so far

(4 dietary kCal / g sucrose )( 342.3 grams / 1 mole sucrose) ( 1 mole sucrose / 6.02 x 10^23 molecules) <--- i don't know where to go or if that's even right. This question is very complex.. Can any one guide me in the right direction??
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Re: How much ATP a person consumes...?

Postby marquitosgm » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:13 pm

I believe that the key is: one molecule of glucose gives 36 ATP molecules through cell respiration.
Sucrose has one glucose and one fructose -which can be isomerized into glucose, hence equals two glucoses.
Thus:
(2000 Kcal/day ) / ( 4 Kcal/g) = 500 g of sucrose fullfil dayly energy intake

500 g/day x Avogadro constant = 3,01x10^24 sucrose molecules.

That is double, aprox = 6x10^24 molecules of clucose

Finally multiply by 36: 216x10^24.

More neatly: 2,16x10^22 molecules of ATP

Hope this helps.
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Re: How much ATP a person consumes...?

Postby JackBean » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:45 pm

marquitosgm wrote:500 g/day x Avogadro constant = 3,01x10^24 sucrose molecules.

You forgot the molecular weight
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Re: How much ATP a person consumes...?

Postby atadayyon » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:32 pm

Dr. Featherstone's class can be pretty challenging...

This is what I got:

Sucrose consists of Glucose and Fructose. Both of which can enter glycolysis (fructose can be synthesized as an intermediate in the glycolysis process). So each round of glycolysis, one molecule of glucose produces a net gain of 2 ATP. The krebs cycle produces 2 more ATP, and the electron transfer chain produces an additional 32 ATP. A total of 36 ATP is produced essentially from 2 pyruvate molecules or 1 glucose molecule. Since sucrose contains two molecules that can enter the cellular respiration process (36 ATP x 2 Molecules = 72 ATP per Sucrose)

2,000 KCal for our diet / 4 KCal in a gram of sucrose = 500g of sucrose.
500g sucrose / 342.3g molecular weight of sucrose = 1.4607 moles of sucrose.
1.4607 moles of sucrose x 6.02 x 10^23 = 8.793 x 10^23 molecules of sucrose.
8.793 x 10^23 molecules of sucrose x 72 ATP per molecule of sucrose = 6.33 x 10^25 ATP produced.

However, this is assuming that all we eat throughout the day is 2,000 KCal or 500g of pure sucrose (table sugar). If you read the last sentence of the first paragraph it says "Dietary fats (usually 18 to 20 carbons) contain approximately 9 dietary calories per gram." I'm assuming we have to take this into consideration too? I haven't gotten that far yet in the book to understand how much ATP dietary fat produces.

All this could be wrong, I don't know, keep this thread going.
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Postby AJ427 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:32 am

I'm pretty sure that we need to include the dietary fats (or he is just trying to trick us).
I have these notes from his lecture:
- The R-chain in fatty acyl CoA has 16-20 carbons
- Carbons from fatty acids go to citric acid cycle
- 8 fatty acid cycles per 2 citric acid cycles (this is for 16 carbons, so for 18 carbons it should be 9 fatty acid cycles)
- 2 carbons are lost in each fatty acid cycle
If you have the 2nd edition of the book, look at pages 438 and 439. Under figure 13-9 it says "each turn of the cycle shortens fatty acid chain by two carbons and generates one molecule of acetyl CoA and one molecule each of NADH and FAGH2." I haven't found how many ATP are produced.
I have found this thread: about8393.html?hilit=Palmitic
They explain how to calculate how much ATP would be produced if there are 16 carbons so I think we just need to calculate this for 18 carbons. I still have no idea how to incorporate those 9 dietary calories per gram.
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Postby AJ427 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:21 am

OK, let me try to calculate this.

18 carbon/2 carbons= 9 acetyl CoA
1 FADH2 produced = 2 ATP
1 NADH produced = 3 ATP
TOTAL: 5 ATP per 1 fatty acid cycle
"The last step produces 2 acetyl-CoA and thus oxidation of C16 takes place in 7 steps, not 8." So for 18 carbon it would be 8 steps
ATP from fatty acid cycle = 8 steps and 5 per turn = 40 ATP
There are 12 ATP produced from each acetyl CoA in the citric acid cycle (1 ATP, 3 NADH (so 3*3)= 9 ATP, 1 FADH2 (so 2)= 2 ATP)
9 acetyl CoA * 12 ATP = 108 ATP
108+40= 148 ATP but since 2 ATP are needed to start the cycle, it is 146 ATP

I've looked at other websites and it pretty much always says that if there are 18 carbons then 146 ATP are produced from fatty acid cycle.
If you know how to go from there then please post it. I need help too.
PS- Go through these calculation carefully because it helped me understand that printout he posted on Blackboard and I'm pretty sure he will ask this on the exam.
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Postby AJ427 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:41 am

So I think we have to go back to the very beginning since when you calculate >>2,000 KCal for our diet / 4 KCal in a gram of sucrose = 500g of sucrose<< that is only for sucrose and we need to make room for the dietary fats. Biochem would help answering this question lol.

We can't do
2,000 KCal for our diet / 4 KCal in a gram of sucrose = 500g of sucrose AND
2,000 KCal for our diet / 9 KCal in a gram of dietary fats = 222 g of dietary fats
because that's calculating 2 different things.

And now I'm stuck.
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Re: How much ATP a person consumes...?

Postby marquitosgm » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:18 am

So, as noted above:


2,000 KCal for our diet / 4 KCal in a gram of sucrose = 500g of sucrose.
500g sucrose / 342.3g molecular weight of sucrose = 1.4607 moles of sucrose.
1.4607 moles of sucrose x 6.02 x 10^23 = 8.793 x 10^23 molecules of sucrose.
8.793 x 10^23 molecules of sucrose x 72 ATP per molecule of sucrose = 6.33 x 10^25 ATP produced.


Provided that one lives sweetely and only on sucrose. Let's see what happens when living on oil:

2,000 KCal for our diet / 9 KCal in a gram of fats = 222,2g of fat.
Molecular wheight of a saturated C18 fatty acid -stearic (02C18H36) is 16x2+12x18+36= 284 (if am not wrong)
222 g of fat / 284g molecular weight = 0.782 moles of stearic acid.
0.782 moles of stearic x 6.02 x 10^23 = 4.708 x 10^23 molecules of stearic.
Now, since
if there are 18 carbons then 146 ATP are produced from fatty acid cycle

4.708 x 10^23 molecules of stearic x 146 ATP per molecule of stearic = 6.874 x 10^25 ATP produced
whic is pretty much tha same than on sugar!

Figures can be sommehow if we speak of moles instead of molecules.

Hence, my conclusion is: every day, the average person uses nearly 650 moles of ATP .

Please check.
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Postby JackBean » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:30 am

I think you cannot answer this question in the way it's given. Simply you don't know, how much sugar and fats such a person consumes.

What about to get it the other way? Person need 2000 calories. ATP produces about 30 kJ/mol (?) -) calculate this into calories, divide and you're done. It will be just highly rough estimation, but with "There are a little less than 4 dietary calories " and "contain approximately 8 dietary calories" you cannot do much better.
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

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Postby marquitosgm » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:03 pm

You need 2000 Kcal a day irrespective whether they come from.
Our calculations show that the ammount of ATP involved would be very similar on a diet based only on sugars and on a diet based only on fat. Hence diet composition is irrelevant.

I encourage you to calculate the other way round, as you have cleverly suggested, and check if this guives a similar result.

Cheers
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Re: How much ATP a person consumes...?

Postby JackBean » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:53 am

Yep, that's the point, if you know how many calories you need and from that you calculate amount of consumed sugar or fat, you will always have the same amount of ATP.
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

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Re: How much ATP a person consumes...?

Postby rafay » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:48 pm

atadayyon wrote:Dr. Featherstone's class can be pretty challenging...

This is what I got:

Sucrose consists of Glucose and Fructose. Both of which can enter glycolysis (fructose can be synthesized as an intermediate in the glycolysis process). So each round of glycolysis, one molecule of glucose produces a net gain of 2 ATP. The krebs cycle produces 2 more ATP, and the electron transfer chain produces an additional 32 ATP. A total of 36 ATP is produced essentially from 2 pyruvate molecules or 1 glucose molecule. Since sucrose contains two molecules that can enter the cellular respiration process (36 ATP x 2 Molecules = 72 ATP per Sucrose)

2,000 KCal for our diet / 4 KCal in a gram of sucrose = 500g of sucrose.
500g sucrose / 342.3g molecular weight of sucrose = 1.4607 moles of sucrose.
1.4607 moles of sucrose x 6.02 x 10^23 = 8.793 x 10^23 molecules of sucrose.
8.793 x 10^23 molecules of sucrose x 72 ATP per molecule of sucrose = 6.33 x 10^25 ATP produced.

However, this is assuming that all we eat throughout the day is 2,000 KCal or 500g of pure sucrose (table sugar). If you read the last sentence of the first paragraph it says "Dietary fats (usually 18 to 20 carbons) contain approximately 9 dietary calories per gram." I'm assuming we have to take this into consideration too? I haven't gotten that far yet in the book to understand how much ATP dietary fat produces.

All this could be wrong, I don't know, keep this thread going.



i am getting the same thing however why are you using 2000 KCal instead of 2000 calories..?. wouldn't it be something like this

2000 Calories = 50.0 g Sugar <-- assuming that is pure sucrose (C12H22O11)
50 g Sucrose (1moleSucrose/342.3 g sucrose) (6.02 x 10^23 molecules/mole sucrose) =
8.79345 x 10^22 molecules C12H22O11

Since it's a 12 carbon ring going into glycolysis, each molecule would produce 72 since 6 carbon ring produces 36. So (8.79345 x 10^22) x 72 = 6.33128834 × 10^24 ATP

Can you guys verify or point out any mistakes ??

I also think there might be different ways to calculate it such as using fat chains etc.. may be thats why he has given info about fats.
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