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Natural selection and logic

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Natural selection and logic

Postby factsfinder » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:42 pm

i am assuming that evolution is caused by a natural selection without any interruptions
by a third power such as what we called god or whatever,my questions are

    1 - Who created or how it could be produced the first cell as the first ancestor
    for all living organisms from nothing.

    2 - who controlled the process of evolution,the nature did choose the bird to fly
    or the bird itself chose to fly or booth agreed to do so,in the first case, the nature
    is unconscious and got no mind to think for evolving a wing for the bird in order to
    fly ,so that is impossible,the second case,the bird itself started to make wings,that
    is also impossible that the bird will think and manage to create his wings ,what a clever
    bird and a good designer,so we got in booth cases an impossible results,and in logic
    off + off never equal on or false + false never equal true so impossible + impossible
    will never equal possible.

    3- human and chimpanzee have one common ancestor,so who is the first ancestor
    for human and chimpanzee,was he look more to chimpanzees or to humans,did
    the nature chose some to be chimpanzees and monkeys...etc and the others to
    be humans,the nature is unconscious and can not manage to produce from a common
    ancestor,a clever human being able to think and invent plus the ability to talk in a different
    way than all other mammals in the world,so that is impossible case,do the ancestor divide
    himself to human and chimpanzee by his choice,that is also impossible ,the same results in logic,
    both false results will never equal correct.

    So,natural selection by means of logic is not accepted and cant be applied to all creations.
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Re: Natural selection and logic

Postby ughaibu » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:52 am

factsfinder wrote:1 - Who created or how it could be produced the first cell as the first ancestor for all living organisms from nothing.
Your question includes assumptions that you'll need to make explicit and defend. For example, I see no reason to suppose that there was a first cell which was an ancestor to all living organisms, you need to be clear about what this assertion of yours means and give an argument in support of it. Abiogenesis is the thesis that life developed from non-life, and on the face of it, this is true by tautology. It is not the claim that life developed from "nothing", so you'll need to clear up the apparent confusion in your assertion about that, too.

Moderators: why am I apparently unable to quote or italicise?
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Re: Natural selection and logic

Postby factsfinder » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:11 pm

ughaibu wrote:Your question includes assumptions that you'll need to make explicit and defend. For example, I see no reason to suppose that there was a first cell which was an ancestor to all living organisms, you need to be clear about what this assertion of yours means and give an argument in support of it. Abiogenesis is the thesis that life developed from non-life, and on the face of it, this is true by tautology


There is no evidence that live started from lifeless matter,and also note that when we say lifeless
matter,then we separate life from matter,so there is a living matter and a lifeless matter,so logically
also life is different than the matter and cant be a characteristic or a structure of all matters,so we can approve that life simply started from a lifeless matter by inducing similar life in any matter in our labs,but that seems impossible for all of us to induce life to any matter.

Let me give an example that if we were able to made a rabbit with heart,lung...etc,then we will stop
at one point,how to make all such things to work,what makes it work is life,so to me a non living matter
or "nothing" makes no difference in my point of view
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Re: Natural selection and logic

Postby ughaibu » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:24 pm

factsfinder wrote:There is no evidence that live started from lifeless matter. . . .
This thread is ostensibly concerned with logical issues. Either there has always been life, or life came from non-life. This is uncontroversial under a classical logic.
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Re: Natural selection and logic

Postby ughaibu » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:54 am

ughaibu wrote:Moderators: why am I apparently unable to quote or italicise?
Sorted.
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Re: Natural selection and logic

Postby JackBean » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:41 am

factsfinder wrote: So,natural selection by means of logic is not accepted and cant be applied to all creations.

So, it can be applied to some creations?
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
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Re: Natural selection and logic

Postby factsfinder » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:09 pm

JackBean wrote:So, it can be applied to some creations?


can not applied to all the creations,yes,not some,if we agree that the organism got no power to change his
creation by himself and have no ability to do so and the other factor is the nature which is unconscious
and got no mind to do so,so the 2 factors are false which in logic will lead to false result,but if in case
that we will accept that the nature is conscious and can make such changes to the organism then we
got in logic one "ON" and if the organism got no power to make changes then in logic we got one
"OFF",in this case we may got an "ON",in other words

.... OFF .... AND .... OFF .... = ...... OFF
.. "Nature" ...... "Organism" .... "Natural Selection"

.... OFF .... OR .... OFF ....= ........ OFF
.."Nature" ...... "Organism" .... "Natural Selection"

....OFF .... AND .... ON ....= ........ OFF
.."Nature" ...... "Organism" .... "Natural Selection"

....OFF .... OR .... ON .... = ......... ON
.."Nature" ...... "Organism" .... "Natural Selection"
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Re: Natural selection and logic

Postby AstraSequi » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:20 pm

ughaibu wrote:Your question includes assumptions that you'll need to make explicit and defend.


I think that the main one is along the lines of, "Certain biological occurrences are impossible without a decision-making entity that makes an explicit choice to bring those things about."

Those occurrences are then listed as 1) formation of a cell from a noncellular precursor, 2) evolution of the wing, and 3) speciation of humans and chimpanzees.
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