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ATCC strains for commercial purposes

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ATCC strains for commercial purposes

Postby dulouz » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:32 pm

Hi all,

I'm interested in getting 2-3 microbe strains for commercial purposes but I'd don't want to get on the bad side of ATCC. These 'crobes are not engineered, that is they are naturally occurring and have no patent.

I'm not certain I want to try to isolate them on my own although I really have not researched that well.

The 'crobes make a product during their life that is valuable to some.

Can you suggest a work around?

m. barkeri and peptostreptococcus productus.

Thanks!
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Postby canalon » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:42 pm

Patrick

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Postby dulouz » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:23 pm

Hi Patrick, I didn't see biofuels or perhaps I'm not reading it correctly. I could call it wastewater treatment I suppose. The 'crobes will be used for biofuels.

Phillip
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Postby canalon » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:28 pm

I don't work for them, but I would simply drop an email at the contact adress and explain what you want to do. That is probably the best way to know what they would allow or not :)
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Postby canalon » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:31 pm

Rereading the page, it says that the lsit is an example, so it is probably not extensive. Really go and ask them .
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Postby dulouz » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:59 pm

Thank you Patrick,

The 'crobes will be used to make methane using the two stage acetation-methanation
process and the methane will be used for biomass power generation. This method is called the microbial catalyst celluosic pathway and is refered to well in energy circles.
It shorts the need for the $1million manure digester to make methane and there is no poo to shovel. If things are successful, I'll send you a consultant fee.

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Postby dulouz » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:16 pm

Things look Ok, I went through the process. Its not much.


I'd want to talk about reactor design if you are up.

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Postby canalon » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:42 pm

You can always talk on the board, I am not sure if I can provide any meaningful input though. The larger culture I have ever worked with* were 1L erlenmeyer flask. But that can be interesting and maybe some other board member will be able to help.




*I do not count the ~100 000L manure lagoon that I have been sampling and using for experimentation as meaningful culture vessel, although there was a lot going on in there :)
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Re: ATCC strains for commercial purposes

Postby dulouz » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:43 pm

Hi - this process is sound. It should work very well. Its called industrial fermenting.

http://www.amazon.com/Transportation-Bi ... 1849730431

The process makes methane and its a higher quality gas than natural gas and the process is much much cleaner. The process uses woodchips and also uses all of the feedstock, there is no residue. You can even burn manure.

There are few books available but more research articles so I have to read those. No consultants and the microbiologists are touchy. The libraries are different. One was really comfortable and the other had the terminal in the place where you were supposed to work for five minutes and leave. I was there all day.

I have an offshore prof from Brazil that says I'm spot on. He says the 'crobes grow well, isolation and collection is easy. I left credible posts in a few places. The gasifier group has a few.

I'm not certain how to
Remove the acetate, remove the 'crobes for recycle back into acetate tank.
The 'crobes need feed other than the CO and CO2 I will feed them. I know they use a medium but there is no discussion about them eating/using. They can't live on those gases alone, they need vitamins so you have to feed them something more. I know what but not when or how much.

I have to sparge H,CO,CO2. The diffusion rate for CO is really bad, its very small. Even under pressure it looks like 300,000 gallons for 1 MW is needed. I don't know the rate of consumption either. That number is for an even hour but if the process takes longer, more tanks are needed.

Talk about CO's diffusion if you want.

Hmm.


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Re: ATCC strains for commercial purposes

Postby dulouz » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:57 pm

The characteristics of this bacteria make them like seaweed on the rocks or plaque bacteria in your mouth. They are non motile and grow attached to something. You'll need high surface area, non disruptive flushing, local feed and drain. You must float the food past, they can't swim to it. They will detach and cling somewhere else if they think the conditions are better elsewhere.

For one MW, I'd need 30 semi tankers of water in tanks. CO does not diffuse well. The CO2 and H do much better.

The tanks should e gravity fed one to the other and then filtered en route. The last tank gets pumped to the first.
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Postby canalon » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:13 am

Hi Phillip,

I must say that this is beyond my field of expertise. As I said before I am not used to have to think in more than a few liters at a time, which make things like rate of diffusion less of a problem.
OK tell me if I get things right:
- you need multiple tanks of media and it appears that some of the bacteria that answer to m. barkeri grow in Tryptic soy agar, so those should be easy to cultivate. But the streptococci seem to require a few vitamins (K1) and micronutrients like hemin. But since they are also found in sewage, their need might be minimal, or fulfilled by other bacteria. I guess the first thing you have to think about is whether or not you can establish a stable colonization of said metal plates in a smaller fermenter when a mix of non sterile liquid is going to flow.
- The problem with gravity feeding your tanks is also that the sludge tend to accumulate at the bottom, mking "filtering of the bacteria' a bit complicated. Unless they adhere to the sludge, which would make filtering them easier.
If you need to move the nutrients around at low speed, whatever recirculating mechanism could be used to mix your CO as well, no? Or you could use plates with holes to simultaneously bubble CO and provide attachment for the bacteria.

It is a bit disorganised, It is probably not worth much (hey it is free), but if that helps, I would be happy to have contributed a little bit to a cleaner world :)
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Postby dulouz » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:57 pm

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the time, I'll try t ask questions where I think you'd be comfortable. Feel free to not respond as well. Thats fine.

I don't know what to do first. The process is reliant on non sludge as I have tickle plenty of mass. I'm sludge adverse

http://www.atcc.org/Attachments/2718.pdf The bacteria is peptptreptococcus

That should be the medium for the microbes. It has ground beef in it. That is pretty sludgy and I can't use it. I hope the meat gets replaced.

Please look at that attachment and comment on the process. If you will, walk me through the steps to get a viable culture. I can't tell when to change media or if I should.

The 'crobes are freeze dried, any special process for reviving freeze dried 'crobes? I think not.

I have the idea, that when i say culture i see a reactor with input and outputs of nutrients and waste but when you say it, it means test tube and when the the nutrients are exhausted, the entire culture needs to be dumped. Even with that, you can show the culture thrived and that may impress some for some reason.

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