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Why I believe in Creation

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Why I believe in Creation

Postby Jonl1408 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:49 pm

Hey I am a teenager that randomly came across this site while I was researching, and I felt led by the Lord to say something. First of all, I believe that to have an argument that will actually benefit the two parties involved you cannot just throw dirt on the other person's belief system, I am not going to do that, and I really don't like hearing of people who do(including and espescially Christians who believe in a Creationist viewpoint, the Bible says we are to be a light to the world, not judges!) Second, there really is no solid proof for either of the two viewpoints, or the Evolutionary theory, would not be a theory, but if you would like to know why I believe in Creation, it is because I believe that it fits better, Charles Darwin once said that evolution takes more faith to believe in than Creation. If you go back to the origins of both viewpoints, that is to say that if you asked a Creationist where God came from, or if you asked an Evolutionist where matter came from, you end up with either an eternal Intelligent Designer(God) or eternal matter. It takes much less faith to believe in an eternal Intelligent Designer than eternal matter. Many people believe that because Evolution is taught in schools and pushed by the media, that science proves the Evolutionary theory, but that is not so, there are so many gaps in both viewpoints that people on both sides use against each other for example: if a Creationist asked an Evolutionist why there are no transitional forms, of course the Evolutionist will answer that we just haven't discovered any yet, just as the Creationist would defend his viewpoint with an answer that cannot be proved. The thing is there are so many things in this earth that suggest an intelligent designer, rather than random chance. I know that there are lots more things that could be said on both viewpoints, but I am only a teenager and I am trying not to turn this into a lengthy dissertation, so I will leave it at that. I would like to hear anything you have to say, and if you find anything that I said that is wrong, just send me a message and I'll correct my mistakes
Thanks, God Bless You
Last edited by Jonl1408 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The scientific establishment bears a grisly resemblance to the Spanish Inquisition"-D. Gould
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Postby JackBean » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:12 am

Hi and welcome.

well, your first mistake is, that creation and evolution are not competitors.
First, the life had to come up, either by creation, abiogenesis or whatever.
Then, there is question, whether life evolved since creation/appearance or is the same forever.

Well, we can see around us quite lots of examples of evolution even nowadays, one just needs to read more about the nature...
Regarding the creation, maybe for you it's easier to believe in some God, for me it's easier to believe there is any. It would be even easier believe, that alies brougth life to Earth :)
But if there was any "Inteligent" Designer, he wouldn't be that inteligent, because one can see, how many mistakes in previous development has been blindly corrected by subsequent evolution.
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
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Postby Darby » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:39 pm

You need to do some more reading - your premises are flawed, basically the same lies that have been presented to Christians for decades. You're trusting very untrustworthy sources - and by that I don't mean the book, but people who are so threatened by actual evidence that they actively lie about it. Even the Darwin quote is hopelessly out of context.

For instance, no transitional forms? Have you checked?
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Re: Why I believe in Creation + why there is no proof for either

Postby Jonl1408 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:14 pm

as to the first comment by Jack Bean I should have specified that I meant "divine creation", and that there is no doubt that these two are in conflict with one another, because God couldn't possibly have used evolution for several reasons: here is one, on the third day God created plants, which if God had used millions of years for one "day" of creation, the plants wouldn't have survived till the fourth day on which he created the sun. As to why I believe in creation, its not just "easier" to believe in divine creation, but it shows itself throughout his creation, man just cannot stand the thought that there is a God who is many times wiser than they are. Oh, and what are the "mistakes" that you are talking about?

As to the second comment by Darby, I know that the Darwin quote is out of context but I couldn't remember the exact words, and as to transitional forms, would you mind giving some examples?
"The scientific establishment bears a grisly resemblance to the Spanish Inquisition"-D. Gould
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Postby Jonl1408 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:38 pm

I guess it all comes back to our presuppositions of Creation and evolution, for a Creationist they are: that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, that the Bible is God's word, that God created the world in six days about 6000 years ago, and that about 4500 years ago a worldwide flood destroyed all animals and humans except for those aboard the Ark which God commanded Noah to build.
For an evolutionist they would be: There is no God, that everything came from nothing or from random chance, that people and animals evolved from common ancestors over billions of years, and that homology proves the evolution of all humans and animals.
There is no way to prove any of those, and I believe that there never will be, and that it all comes back to how much faith you have.
"The scientific establishment bears a grisly resemblance to the Spanish Inquisition"-D. Gould
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Re:

Postby canalon » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:03 pm

Jonl1408 wrote:There is no way to prove any of those, and I believe that there never will be, and that it all comes back to how much faith you have.


The problem is that the evolutionist/scientific approach use facts and hypothesis based on observed phenomena to make hypothesis about what happened in the past. And the check that the hypothesis are coherent with other observed facts. That is science work.
The evolutionist pulls facts out of his a$$ or from a book written in the past by people who had no clue nor explanation about the world other than very basic observation and what they could make up to protect their power over their tribe.
So, neither can prove anything, but if I have to make a choice, I'd rather trust scientist that are working hard to develop a coherent explanation of our world and change it when the facts are opposed to their hypothesis rather than any goat/camel/sheep/herder from 2000 years ago who wanted to have the member of the tribe bring him food to intercede with higher powers rather than actually work by himself. Besides why would the biblical myth f the creation would be more true than any other myth of creation? There are many more documented, some way older than the christian one, any many way more entertaining.

And you are also right about faith, it all depends in the amount of faith, obscurantism and gobbled-up made-up explanation you are ready to let muddy your vision of the world. If you rather stay blind and keep your brain passively accepting explanation provided by people who are more interested in your devotion (to their interest) than to critical thinking, you are welcome to do so. But I suggest that you do not try to use logic to convince anyone of your assertions, you cannot win.
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any proof. (Ashley Montague)
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Postby canalon » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:11 pm

Oh and by the way:

I do not exist. Neither does the rest of the world. It is all a figment of your imagination. There is nothing but what you imagine. And I am the terribly nagging part of your brain that would like you to start engaging your critical abilities, rather than passively accepting the ''divine word''.

You are welcome to try to prove that the real world do really exist :P
Mind you, you could commit any form of suicide, if I am nothing but a figment of your imagination, you should end up fine. Mind you, if I am real that may be a bit more catastrophic... At least you would have proved me wrong, at the risk of your only life. And even if you believe in an afterlife, I seem to remember that the christian doctrine does seriously disapprove of taking short cuts to the heaven and will send you forever in hell for trying to escape this valley of tears before you have lived the prescribed amount of time (I let you think about free will etc.). So in any case I do not suggest you listen to me and try anything more stupid, that will achieve nothing.
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Science has proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty without
any proof. (Ashley Montague)
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Postby Jonl1408 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:45 pm

Thank you for pointing out that science is very important to our beliefs, I have some links here that will explain my views in a scientific fashion, I will refer you to these links since I have many things to write about, and not much time
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio ... lution.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-ans ... opes-trial
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-ans ... n-features
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-ans ... ial-organs
Many Creation and Evolution scientists have worked very hard to get these answers and I think that they will help you to understand that scientific evidence shows both sides.

Addressing your comment about the Creationist viewpoint obscuring my view of the world, rather than obscuring it, it clarifies my view of the world. I find that it allows me to understand both sides Creation and Evolution more clearly.

Addressing your Ashley Montague quote, if someone is not certain about their proof then it is not proof, both Creationists and Evolutionists have certainty but have no solid proof, or Evolution and Creation would not be hypotheses.
Proof: the establishment of a fact by the use of evidence

To answer your second comment, if you are saying that besides our senses, all that we have to prove that everything is real, is our faith, then I definitely agree with you.
"The scientific establishment bears a grisly resemblance to the Spanish Inquisition"-D. Gould
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Postby Jonl1408 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:05 pm

Here is the main link, if you have any questions for me, when I am not on, this site should have most of them on it and is a very good place for material.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers
Here are some more links for you to check out if you have the time, and I think that they are very interesting.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-ans ... mics-order
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-ans ... /mutations
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-ans ... -selection
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-ans ... e-evidence
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Re: Why I believe in Creation + why neither can be proved

Postby JackBean » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:26 pm

For example, if a scientist’s presupposition is that God does not exist and that living organisms are the result of evolution over millions of years, then his interpretations of the outcome of operation science will seem to support his view of the past. When a scientist’s presupposition, however, is that God exists and that living organisms are the result of His creative powers within a six-day period, he can use this to properly interpret the results of operation science which support the Bible's claims.


:lol: :lol: :lol: So, if he assumes evolution, than he misinterpret the evidence, while when he assumes the God, he will properly interpet the data :lol: :roll: :lol:
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

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Postby canalon » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:47 pm

Creation scientist are even less scientist than those you see on TV ads for cosmetics.
Answer in genesis is not a source of scientific knowledge, but just the preaching of people who do not hesitate to ignore fact to keep their fictions alive.
I guess JackBean's excerpt is the demonstration of what is horribly wrong in this website. If when you have to chose between facts and faith, you chose faith, then you cannot be a scientist, what you are is deluded.
Patrick

Science has proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty without
any proof. (Ashley Montague)
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Postby Sarah777 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:10 am

Jon1408 you made one major mistake in your above posts...you made the statement that creation along with evolution has no solid evidence and cannot be proved. However creation has every bit of proof necessary and much much more! In order to believe that creation is true you first have to believe that the Bible is true. So I will do my best to explain some very basic ways we can know the Bible is truth.

Unlike any other religions the bible was not written by a man trying to come up with hypothetical historical facts. We know this because the writers of the Bible used very specific names, places, and dates that took place thousands of years ago. Now if someone had merely invented this religion and had come up with the Bible he would never have included such details for fear of being disproved! Not only that but the facts listed in the Bible have been proved by archeology! The stories in the Bible are not myths they are true and so much has already been found to prove that but there is much much more to be found still. God knew men would doubt and as a result He gave us answers...you just have to look for them!

Evolution seeks to prove itself on the premise that all things came form nothing, but where have we ever seen such an occurrence before? Everything must come from something, but not only must it come from something but it must come from something more complex not less...for instance where in this physical world have we ever seen a case of something bad becoming something better overtime? And by this I don't mean something like a tadpole becoming a frog...that is evidence for creation not evolution...it is part of the natural cycle of life for frogs. You will never see a tadpole become a frog and then a fish and then grow wings and fly. Could you give me a tangible example of evolution working today?

Why is it that Darwin assumed we came from monkeylike ancestors but there are no creatures in the transitional stages today? Of the history we all agree we have documentation for, have we ever seen any instances of evolution taking place? Darwin never saw any when he came up with the evolution hypothesis, so what was it that he based evolution on? We will do our best to answer your questions but we still have many of our own about evolution.

Evolution relies on a very large amount of faith, much more than it takes to believe in creation...
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