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The Fiber Disease

Human Anatomy, Physiology, and Medicine. Anything human!

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Postby Skytroll » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:58 pm

I think they should be two separate entities.

Lymebusters let Morgellons have a page on the board. I think Morgellons should have it's own forum.

I think the Lymes folks could be approached and to see if separating the two would be more beneficial for each.

Maybe we should see where the link is.

You know, both are related to the immune system., though, maybe this is the only link, one leads to the other? I really don't know.


Time for some real definitions, right?

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Postby London » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:09 am

Dear all (Most of all anyway),

As I said late last night, I would not have any access to a computer today- not until this evening.

So, I’m here now and have removed my post about Mr. Kern. Not because I wanted to but for you guys

sake . I saw where Poison said it would be shut down if it was not removed and I certainly would not want that

to happen to you guys. Sorry Poison, that was cool for you to leave it up as long as you did. I assumed it

would have been removed long before now. Do I feel bad/ terrible as Cilla said I did?

You better believe I don’t!!! I am a wee bit embarrassed about the language ( or implied language)

that some found offensive ( like bugsonthewire, Funny that it offended this person then

they came back and wrote in the same manner) , things that make you go hmmm.

Anyway, sorry if the implied language offended anyone.

Mr. Kern >>> believe me, I had the right Mr. Kern. I meant every word I said to that man.

But Helen, I understand your point and fully respect it too. Hopefully I have not ran him off-

And maybe he will give a hand with that E-book you all have been working on. I mean that too.

I bet he would be great at it! Heck, he might even try to get you all to see that the fibers are nothing

More than toilet paper.. And Helen, I’m not trying to be facetious here, just wanting and hoping

that you will be careful. I respect your wishes and those of some of the others and hope on ya’lls behalf,

that he will still write here with you,

To Mr. Kern, I not only removed your name, I removed the post. You acted very elegant and brave

And wrote a great cover your butt post back……..Tell Jurvetson Hello for me, oh yeah, Grissella, The Moth Lady too.

You know the one Mr. Kern, the one that made the fibers happen. Maybe one day maybe you will share with all of us why it is that she is nicknamed the Moth lady.

Also to Helen> Yes, I was very aware that I could have been ticketed, arrested-whatever. I was very aware before, during and after I wrote it.

This just says how strongly I feel about my beliefs and the pain that this man has caused. It was well worth that chance to me- well worth it!!!!

Okay, so there it is, Thanks again to Poison for allowing me 24 hours to remove it. And to all that I offended with my “implied dirty words- I’m sorry.

Randy, I read your post and express my deepest sympathy, I am here for you . Just ask.

Lynne, c’mon we can see right thru your act…you knew that Poison was not talking to you, please.

And one more time for the record, I’m truly sorry that my post could have possibly shut

Down this entire strand. I will no longer be posting here if that horrible man is anywhere near.

This might make some of you happy but I don’t need your rhetoric unless you want it thrown right back at you.

London


PS: POISON, I hope this post was okay, if not, please PM me and I will remove it too. Just don't take away the strand b/c of me....just ban me if you wish but please do not make the others suffer.
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Postby RANDY » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:16 am

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123018059

This has nothing at all to do with our disease? How are we bringing this up? I am confused.

Cilla: Thanks for the condolences. It is appreciated.

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Postby London » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:08 am

Well, since Mr. K has not posted I guess I will.

Cilla, Lynne, I admit, I just breezed through your post this evening regarding Tam Tam and his posting of the F-16's......

I recall you saying something or another maybe no it was not chemtrails- or yes it was...don't remember.....

But what I think he was referring to the jets was symbolic of them being a transport vehicle.

Transport what????? The genetically modified organisms/ the genetically modified foods that I have

been trying to tell everyone for well over a week now how bad they are!!!

Now according to our smart, lying blogger......this GM stuff does not exist....excuse me> he knows it does, he knows all about it but wants others to think it can't be.....CAN'T YOU SEE THRU HIS SMOOZING PACIFICATIONS???

aNYWAY, HERE YOU GO.....gO FIND IT IN A WASHINGTON POST IF YOU WANT IT......i THINK i FOUND IT IN THE 90'S SECTION/TIME

_____________________________________

LONDON - Britain's Ministry of Defense has disclosed that it is creating lethal genetically modified (GM) organisms in a secret program to prepare defenses against a new era of germ warfare.

Tests of the potential of "GM supergerms" are being conducted at Porton Down, the headquarters of the government's chemical and biological defense establishment.

The research uses similar genetic engineering techniques to those that create GM foods sold in supermarkets. It was launched to study the implications should such technology be developed for weapons of mass destruction by an enemy power.

The government has kept the experimental research secret, but the London Sunday Telegraph has learned it has been going on for at least five years.

The theoretical threat posed by GM germs has alarmed the Ministry of Defense. Genetic techniques can make biological weapons more dangerous to humans and less easy to detect or counter.

It is already feasible to use genetic engineering to introduce a lethal toxin into a pathogen -- an organism that attacks humans -- to increase its killing potential. Organisms can also be modified to resist antidotes.

In the future, it may be possible to wipe out an army with mutant germs that would then be made benign by a genetic flaw, enabling an enemy force to invade in safety.

An enemy may be more ready to deploy such "controllable" GM weapons than existing organisms such as anthrax. Ultimately, it may be possible to develop an "ethnic destruction" germ, that is, an organism that would attack the genes of a particular race.

In January, a study by the British Medical Association warned that a plague or toxin designed to kill specific racial groups could be only five to 10 years away.

Britain has signed treaties prohibiting the creation of biological weapons for military purposes. The sole reason for the research at Porton Down is to develop protection measures against any threat posed to the population or to servicemen.

A Ministry of Defense spokesman said: "To perform this task our scientists have to be at the cutting edge of biological scientific knowledge, including the techniques of genetics."


hARK....on the cutting edge???Hmmm sounds just like something
That Tammy Tam would say.....
and Yes, I'm well aware that it does not say it was in the foods, thank you.....
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Postby London » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:15 am

-mail this to a friend Printable version

GM fish glows in the bowl

By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor


A Taiwanese company has created a genetically modified (GM) ornamental fish that glows in the dark.

But will they catch on?
The Taikong Corporation took DNA from a jellyfish and inserted it into a zebra fish to make it shine a yellow-green colour.

GM animals are frequently used in labs and flocks of GM sheep make valuable proteins in their milk, but the "Night Pearl" zebra fish is the first gene-altered pet to go on sale to the public.

For some, the animal will be a fascinating novelty; for others, it will raise fears of a trend for bio-engineered "Frankenstein pets".

The Taikong Corporation reports strong interest in its creation from the UK, where the aquatic industry is worth millions.

Safe and sterile

Taikong insists the GM fish, designated TK-1, is safe, sterile and that its additional fluorescent gene is harmless.

The fish was unveiled in 2001, but it took another year and a half to develop a technique to render the animal sterile. It cannot cross-breed with natural fish.

TK-1 was developed using the work of HJ Tsai of the National Taiwan University.

Initially, Taikong plans to sell 30,000 glowing fish at US $17 each and then increase production to more than 100,000 in three months. But not everyone is enthusiastic.

Aquatic industry specialists are worried TK-1 may be the first of many GM pet fish destined for Britain. In particular, some tropical fish are being bio-engineered to tolerate cold and could colonise UK waters if they escaped, disturbing the present ecosystem.

According to Derek Lambert, of Today's Fishkeeper magazine, GM piranhas could survive in our waterways and pose a major problem. He is urging traders to boycott the TK-1.

Keith Davenport, of the Aquatic Ornamental Trade Association (AOTA), commented that interfering with the genome was unnecessary and said people did not want animals to become fashion accessories

The Point???? Just throwing the G Modified word around.....you know....since it does not really exist......
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I told you to quit

Postby Sabrina » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:04 am

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Postby Cilla » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:01 pm

Hi London,

I hope that you are okay. We would be very much the poorer on this site without your amazing insight and intelligence, but what I think is happening is that you are rushing through things too much.

What I think is that at times you hit on what could very well be the right answer, (and often something that is of absolutely crucial importance), but unfortunately you do not slow down to examine it, and to assess whether there would be professional literature to substantiate your hypothesis.

This is one reason why I give your posts my repeated consideration.

One example is the joking remark that you made about how the inside of your body would appear at autopsy, or post mortem. I think that you were principally referring to the possible presence of fibers on gross, and specific, examination by the pathologist.

Others have appreciated the joke, and have said so.

Now we need some 'joined up' thinking, i.e. a logical analysis of what you have stated, 'joined up' with others who have reported removing 'unidentifiable fibers' from, e.g. the blocked lymphatic system, of patients who also had arthropods breeding on them.

Now, think it through. If a person with such internal fibers dies, and they have not had the benefit of a parasitologist and team removing the fibers, e.g. with their specialist laser techniques, what will happen to the fibers?

That is the question. Not how any of you might appear (absent treatment) in the far off future, if you have an autopsy or post mortem.

The question that should be analysed is this. How are the affected people appearing now, and what changes might have been observed since this disease began, at autopsy or post mortem?

If we take the view that this disease emerged around 2000, would it seem likely to you that some of the people affected would have since died?

Or, do you think that anyone and everyone who has this is still alive and hearty, as well as being predominantly female and forty?

If it is an infection by an unkown pathogen, then what would be likely is that those with severely compromised immune systems, either because of serious or terminal diseases, or because they are living in abject poverty, e.g. on the streets, would be, (other things being equal), more susceptible to it, not less.

By the inclusion of 'other things being equal' I am of course referring to the possible genetic predisposition that anyone affected probably needs to have.

However, it would not make any sense to assume that absolutely no person within the group of those so severely immunocompromised would have such a genetic predisposition.

Therefore, if some were genetically predisposed, and severely immunocompromised, it must logically follow that some were infected.

If that is so, then, (because of their extremely poor health to start with), it would be extremely foolish to say that none of them have died since 2000.

Think about it. If they would have been expected to die at some roughly finite time after their diagnosis of, e.g. a terminal illness, they would not surely be expected to attain extended longevity because they also succumb to this condition.

They will not all have had autopsies or post mortems, but some will have.

The fibers would be there.

Therefore they have been documented.
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Postby Cilla » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:21 pm

Hi again,

Note that I said they have been noted. Good pathologists are extremely fastiduous and pay very close attention to detail. They may have been unsure of the precise nature of what has been observed, but they have spotted the difference, and this has led to quite interesting professional discussion, such as the apparent proliferation of strange fibers within some cadavers' bodies.

Some have thought this may be a fungal mold that has grown in the branching out of control hyphal manner of some dermatophyte infections.

Some are asking why this started happening in the past six or seven years or so.

It is true that dermatophyte infections are also on the increase, so maybe that is what the patients who died had, superimposed on the disease process that actually was the cause of death.

If that is true for all of them, though, it would logically have to be what is solely wrong, although to a lesser clinical extent, with a lot of people who have this disease, (manifested as it is by what is presumably, at least some of the time, the same kind of strange fibers).

Therefore, if all that you have wrong with you is a dermatophyte infection, this is easily cleared up nowadays. Granted, some of the drugs used can take a long time before complete eradication is achieved, even up to a year, depending on the site of body affected.

Yet, that won't fly or rock as a complete theory, even though a fungal infection must be an integral part of the whole diagnostic scenario.

Not with the callus, the nematodes, the myiasis, and the wealth of fibers, some black, some red, some tan and some greyish or bright white.

Oh but, I forgot! Some hyphae can change their colours and shapes. Yet, I do not think that anyone has ever said that their demise can only ever be effected by cholinergic blockade. A creature needs to have neuro-muscular junctions along its body for that to be the type of chemical required!

Well, John was asking the right questions re how to differentiate between fibers that may be environmental contaminants, and those which are, frankly, alive and kicking!

Oh, there are chemicals that could be applied to pick out the chitin!

It is absolutely foolish to chase away any scientist or medic, irrespective of what they may or may not have written, said or done.

Furthermore, John did come over to me as truthful when he said that he was not the writer of the blog.

The previous posts he put onto this site were exactly what is needed, and he also put a lot of his time and effort into them.

I think that you are mistaken, London, although sincerely so. If you can currently only manage to feel something approaching your best at work two days a week then you are unwell. If you are being stung, e.g. with insect parts, (and a wasp stinger has been removed from a patient's scalp), then, at times, you will act a little irrationally. Who would not?

I've had to eat humble pie on many occasions. I think, given the current circumstances as a whole, you really should think about this and do the same.

Do not dare leave this board, though, because you have hit on many other 'right' answers which have been left untouched, and you are still doing it, although these are being lost among some of the irrationality.

Box clever!

Or, as one scientist said to me, when you all refused to answer his question, (repeatedly).

'Oh, well. It was just a possibility. If they don't want to answer, please do not ask again! They can keep them, if they so prefer.'
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Postby Cilla » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:53 pm

Another example of London's intelligence, which must not be passed over, even though it is in the middle of her communication, when she said:

'Cilla, Lynne, I admit, I just breezed through your post this evening regarding Tam Tam and his posting of the F-16's......

I recall you saying something or another maybe no it was not chemtrails- or yes it was...don't remember.....

But what I think he was referring to the jets was symbolic of them being a transport vehicle.

Transport what????? The genetically modified organisms/ the genetically modified foods that I have'

Of course Tam tam's reference to the jets was symbolic of them being a transport vehicle of targeting pods! Some kind of transport must be ferrying the seed pods from one destination to another, and I can tell you this, it is not the American airforce, and neither is it your wonderful government. I am not saying they are perfect, and I certainly disagree with a lot they do, but they are not, definitely not, in my opinion in the business of giving disease to their own citizens.

Helen, it was you yourself who said that it would be entirely possible to have a prototype of the seed pod, (your term, I think), made in a university.

Now, if you are saying that, upon pressure, one emerged from your knee, replete with feather and fawna, then I cannot understand why you would now state that seed pods have nothing to do with this disease.

You were good enough to trace the travels of the boat, (a vehicle of transport), and the crate, which you said had also been in the hold of an aeroplane (a vehicle of transport).

I am sure that you said whoever handled the crate was 'badly bitten', leading to his subsequent symptoms, and also to yours.

Not only that, you are so concerned about your local community's health that you tried to report this to some kind of group, in addition to e-mailing the Morgellon's Research Foundation, as well as being far sighted enough to place an advert in the local newspaper, which is really, really good of you.

Now, if a fully formed seed pod emerged from you in the way that it did, (and I think that your hypothesis of the feathers is right on the button), you must ask yourself how it got into your knee in the timescale, i.e. from the initial point of trauma.

What part of the seed pod pierced the skin? Where was the seed pod a priori? You cite the crate as the locus of infection, which is entirely probable. If another was also infected, (before you), from the self same source, then, as night follows day, it must surely be there was more than one seed pod, I think?

If you are concerned enough to work out a hypothesis, and a possible 'mechanical' or 'engineering based' prototype of this, and to alert the authorities, and to insert adverts, it must surely mean that you think there may be more, I think?
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consider this

Postby southcity » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:01 pm

in regards to the fibers from a dozen or more pages back in this thread. The fibers represent a form of "pathway" in this organism. multiple pathways probably. apoptic perhaps and others.. try to not concentrate too much on the fibers is what i have been told.

what do you think mr. kern?
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something to ponder

Postby southcity » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:39 pm

I feel the need to add some of tamtams words as written to me last Dec.

"many true professional will surpass my assessment as soon as they are able to culture this element in laboratory setting. But this will take at least a half year if not longer.

I took consciously the risk to be ridiculed by the professional.
And I have not run test because test have to be done by an accredited Institute or company if the result must be further used as guidance for further scientific research.

All is done with an attitude of charity towards woman and children.
Most scientist would breed on the subject matter another five or ten years before getting conclusive. And almost nobody would go public.
People are conventional." end.


add this together with what i have posted on the other board... these are my words from that post.


**if you have this illness, then you have seen firsthand, a majority of the items viewed on the video. so tamtam did his best to isolate and study this organism we suffer from.*** (and so far it is, in my opinion, a fantastic effort.)
He has also stated many times that much further study(research) is needed. In fact he has said it needs to be tackled by a large number of the best in the field. he has never stated his work was complete and all inclusive. He has done this with volunteers, in a high class setting, AND WITHOUT A BUDGET. this is key

so the question is not the validity of the work he has done ; it is why their is still a huge lack of funding to disprove or maybe prove his initial findings. Note: as of today there is nothing even close to this assessment available publicly. Also note that Dr. Wymore states he is unable to reach any conclusion regarding this video. in otherwords, maybe, maybe not.

so lets try to understand what kinds of politics and back room deals make the world of research turn.

1 The medical world, esp. big pharm. are huge industries. The goal of industry, any/all industry, is profit. so in a nutshell. Industry=generation of $ with profit as goal

2 ALL INDUSTRIES ARE AS SELF SERVING AS CAN BE.

3 research depends on budget.

4 biomedical AND pharm. Industries provide the majority of research groups with their budget.

Therefore all research is controlled for self serving reasons, with very few exceptions to this rule. example-Dr. John Martin, dr schwartz. NOTE: both of these DR.'s have been "beat up" by others in their industry

5 laboratory and other research results are shared only if they are part of subsidized research. This represents capital investment on the part of industry.


So... It is safe to assume that unfavorable research will not be funded.


6 There are many out there who's work is either shut down or suddenly has funds cut because of controversy or negitive effects on industry profit margin.

Even the MRF has stated many times as to how difficult and long of a process it is gaining funding.


so how do these relate to the initial conclusions based on the video?


tamtam states that this element(organism) is genetically manipulated. if proven so.. How would this benefit industry? the reality is the result would devistate the industry. AND, if not forced, who would perform this task?.

tamtam states highly genetically manipulated specie has become commensal AND DIFFERENTIATES--this means a single pathogen is able to cause several seemingly different diseases.

DISEASE=$ for Industry. there are no arguments here concerning this fact

And Generally speaking.....

Degenerative disease is of our day, meaning new and emerging. In deed, the exploitation of an otherwise healthy body is becoming very common.

To cure is not profitable, but to treat the effects(symptoms) is now everyday life and generating BILLIONS on top OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS by simply selling symptom suppressive drugs for the life of who needs them.

tamtam states that this bug will most likely link to many of these types of diseases and other antibiotic resistent maladies of our day. All of them ENORMOUS capital machines.

Hence, until a money machine equal to the current one is thought of or discovered that would also benifits us, the infected, funding for research will never be granted.

If one pathogen is worth a billion dollars, Then a differentiating pathogen must be worth many billions of $.

This bug is a money maker.

As stated, Unfavorable research will never be funded by industry. Those who continue work on these types of things are either persecuted(e.g. Dr Schwartz) or their findings are bought by the industry and not reported. e.g. Vioxx.

Do you believe that industry is unrepresented in forum groups such as this one? You would be foolish to believe they are not,

perhaps you have even been able to detect a few of these people......Once you are alert to this reality, these people are not so difficult to spot.

this is what we are up against, not the debate over the findings of the video. The only way to big research that I can come up with is the outrage and concern of the general public.

The video, regardless if fact or fiction (i believe fact), is still the best tool I have seen to achieve this goal. and remember that Industry has all the money needed to control information.

These realities are incredibly important to bear in mind when reading or viewing any new information which becomes available. The bottom line is that the general public must begin asking questions about this disorder without having to become infected themselves.







John Kern wrote:I've see the video, and I agree with Dr Wymore's assesment of it:

http://morgellons.org/rwupdate.html
Whenever I or any other scientists publish our work, it is up to us to convincingly demonstrate that we have accomplished what we say we have. I could never publish something and leave it up to the reader to interpret what I am trying to say. Such research would never get through scientific review and could never be published. No, all relevant facts must be clearly described and defined. Most of my publications have been in the fields of molecular biology, physiology and pharmacology. Any competent scientist should be able to follow the protocol steps described in my papers and replicate my experiments. If they could not, it would call into question the validity of the paper. Results must be replicable and all steps should be clearly described for other to repeat the experiments. Hopefully, if the maker of the video feels that he has information regarding the cause of Morgellons Disease, then he will perform the necessary, proper and fairly easy experiments so that this information can be shared with other researchers. Just as with many things in life, talk is cheap. When it comes to scientific hypotheses, talk is more than cheap, it is meaningless. One must not only ‘talk the talk, but must also walk the walk’.
Southcity


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Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Postby London » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:20 pm

Do not have time to read you guys post at the moment.......

I'm being brave to even come to this site and will no longer do so unless
it is thru a public computer........

Someone tried to give us all a virus/ trojan , whatever you call it....Now who the heck owns a 10 million dollar computing usiness that was possibly mad,
irrate or P.O'd enough to do something like that??? HMMMMMM.......

why his name just escapes my feminine mind........?????
_______________________________________-

To the PM person that wanted to know why I removed it?

Answer: It is obvious> just go back a page or two and read.....

and by the way PM person.......I just removed it here.....but I replaced
it elsewhere.....and elsewhere .....and elsewhere??????

ARG!!!!!! WE just have Fibers from the toilet tisuue.....????? Yeah, that's got to be it, thanks for the insight.......SmoozerBoy
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