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Human Anatomy, Physiology, and Medicine. Anything human!

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Postby befour » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:07 pm


Is it true that Gerberding is a close personal friend of George W. Bush?

I read an article, a few months ago, that said the CDC's agenda had been restructured, beginning with the appointment of Gerberding.

Just checking.......

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Postby Skytroll » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:25 pm


Gerberding has been in the CDC for some time.

Other Administrations.

Just a preview:
The CDC Director's Biography

"Julie Louise Gerberding, M.D., M.P.H. became the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Administrator of the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) on July 3, 2002.

Before becoming CDC Director and ATSDR Administrator, Dr. Gerberding was Acting Deputy Director of the National Center for Infectious Diseases (NCID), where she played a major role in leading CDC’s response to the anthrax bioterrorism events of 2001. She joined CDC in 1998 as Director of the Division of Healthcare Quality Promotion, NCID, where she developed CDC’s patient safety initiatives and other programs to prevent infections, antimicrobial resistance, and medical errors in healthcare settings. Prior to coming to CDC, Dr. Gerberding was a University of California at San Francisco (UCSF) faculty member and directed the Prevention Epicenter, a multidisciplinary research, training, and clinical service program that focused on preventing infections in patients and their healthcare providers. Dr. Gerberding is an Associate Clinical Professor of Medicine (Infectious Diseases) at Emory University and an Associate Professor of Medicine (Infectious Diseases) at UCSF.

She earned a B.A. magna cum laude in chemistry and biology and an M.D. at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. Dr. Gerberding then completed her internship and residency in internal medicine at UCSF, where she also served as Chief Medical Resident before completing her fellowship in Clinical Pharmacology and Infectious Diseases at UCSF. She earned an M.P.H. degree at the University of California, Berkeley in 1990.

more here:

Don't know about being a personal friend of Bush, maybe Daddykins. Where was she in 1988 to 1992?

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Postby Skytroll » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:16 pm

Now, where does Psychodermatology fit in here?

It has a spot on the butterfly wing or a donkey's

4 things cause changes in Human DNA as posted earlier:

It was that last one I was looking for:
Cytokines"Massive release of Wolbachia into the blood can determine severe systemic inflammatory reactions. Indeed, the release of bacteria has been shown to be associated with production of pro-inflammatory cytokine, neutrophil recruitment and an increase in specific immunoglobulins."......from above post.

Transmitters - both DNA and electrical

Proteases - Bacteriophages

Protons, electrons, ions - channels

Cytokines - "Cytokines are cell intercellular messengers responsible for signalling an incredible variety of cell functions. The roles and functions of cytokines are confusing and still being sorted out. Over three dozen have been identified with more being discovered each day. Cytokines may have multiple functions and actions and different cytokines may have similar biological functions.

Broadly speaking, cytokines may be divided into several different classes. Even this organization is changing......" see classes.....

Note from above the one on skin:

"Arch Dermatol 2002 Sep;138(9):1189-96 Abstract quote
During the past decade, the detection of cytokines has been a focus of scientific interest, including in dermatology. Dysregulation of cytokine production seems to be involved in the pathogenesis of various diseases. The determination of cytokine levels is of increasing diagnostic importance, and cytokines are used as therapeutic agents too. Cytokines are polypeptides secreted by a wide variety of cells in response to diverse stimuli, and mediate autocrine, paracrine, or endocrine effects that are often pleiotropic and redundant. Their molecular weight lies between 6 and 70 kd. The cytokines of immunologic relevance are primarily those that are formed by immune cells (monokines and lymphokines) and/or influence their function.

In principle, cytokines are detectable on 3 levels: (1) By using polymerase chain reaction, the messenger RNA expression of cytokine genes can be detected and, with the newer techniques, even quantified. (2) Protein synthesis can be detected by using bioassays and enzyme immunoassays or immunocytologic or immunohistologic detection of intracellular cytokine production. (3) Finally, there are indirect methods for the detection of cytokine formation by analysis of products of cytokine activity.

The immunobiological features of cytokines and the different approaches for cytokine determination are briefly discussed herein because basic knowledge of these biologically highly active messenger substances and the capabilities and limits of the individual detection methods are essential for a sensible interpretation of the relevant findings."

So, one of the four.

As posted earlier:
Specific receptors in the endings of those afferent nerve fibres in the skin can be activated by a huge variety of substances including transmitters, proteases, protons and cytokines......

Breaking it down:

"Activation of the nerve endings in the skin is followed by the generation of action potentials that are conveyed centrally to the laminae I and II of the spinal cord dorsal horn. Stimulation of the nerves also leads to the release of “proinflammatory” substances from peripheral nerve endings. The Calcitonin-gene-related peptide (CGRP) and substance P (SP) are two neuropeptides that are present in C- and A-fibre afferents and that are released upon stimulation of peripheral nerve endings. CGRP and SP induce pruritus, dilate arterioles, increase vascular permeability and activate mast cells. Capsaicin-induced depletion of sensory nerves prevents the neuropeptide release and inflammatory skin responses like the flare. Sensory nerves can be stimulated under pathological conditions by proteinases via activation of proteinase-activated receptors (PARs), by protons through interaction with acid sensing ion-channels (ASICs) or by the transmitter substance acetylcholine which is produced and released from keratinocytes and interacts with nicotinic and muscarinic receptors. Stimulation of nerve fibres is followed by release of e.g. neuropeptides that further affect many target cells in the skin including inflammatory cells like mast cells, leukocytes and neutrophils"

now if you read some of the abstracts you will see that drugging the person comes first in the psychodermatology department. So, in order for us to get past this DOP label we will have to prove what these four things are and how they PHYSICALLY effect us, this is not a Psych disease.

Transmitters, Proteases, Protons, Cytokines

For example, here is one of the abstracts at the lovely Psychodermatology Convention:

Psychocutaneous Disorders of Hair and Scalp
Ralph M. Trüeb, Department of Dermatology, University Hospital of Zurich, Switzerland

Many patients with a hair or scalp disorder have psychological issues associated with their chief complaint. Most psychocutaneous conditions can be grouped into (1) psychophysiologic disorders in which the scalp disorder is exacerbated by emotional factors, e.g. seborrheic scalp dermatitis, (2) primary psychiatric disorders in which there is no real skin condition, but everything seen is selfinduced, e.g. trichotillomania, neurotic excoriations, factitial dermatitis, (3) cutaneous sensory disorders, in which the patient has various abnormal sensations of the skin with no primary dermatologic lesions and no diagnosable internal medical condition responsible for the sensations, e.g. scalp dysesthesia, and (4) secondary psychiatric disorders, in which patients develop emotional problems as a result of hair loss, usually as a consequence of disfigurement. Patients with psychocutaneous disorders are often reluctant to be referred to a psychiatrist, and the dermatologist is then the physician designated by the patient to handle the chief complaint. To handle these cases effectively, the dermatologist must be capable to diagnose and classify psychocutaneous disorders and select the appropriate class of psychopharmacologic agent as indicated. Finally, the best way to alleviate emotional distress caused by hair loss is to effectively treat it: The intensity of the distress that the patient expresses should influence the clinician’s decision to treat the hair disorder. For example, the decision to use finasteride in a male patient with a borderline clinical state of androgenetic alopecia may hinge on the amount of distress the patient suffers from his hair loss."

Please read Abstracts, page down this link to Abstracts: ... n-2005.htm

So, if we present this to Congress, do we have a chance?

In otherwords the Health Centers in America and around the world decree
that Morgellons is a psychological disease. However sufferers know this is a physical disease causing physical disability in many ways, and it's cause is found in any one of the following:
Transmitters, receptors, regulators, Proteases and Bacteriophages, Photons and ion channels, and Cytokine (pro-inflammatory).

We have documents......Is it a go? What else to we have? We cannot go to the Hague.........unless we go to Congress first. I think it needs to be taken forward to those in Parliament, Congress, etc in each country and then if need be taken to the Hague........

I still have the letter to the FBI!

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Postby Skytroll » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:22 pm

This statement troubles me:

". To handle these cases effectively, the dermatologist must be capable to diagnose and classify psychocutaneous disorders and select the appropriate class of psychopharmacologic agent as indicated. "from above link: Abstracts.

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Postby tamtam » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:39 pm


You talk yourself into the bushes.

What you suffer from is an infection!

This means that there is an etiological agent.
If you get proper anti microbial therapy your symptoms will go away.

However, what you mention could partially apply if the agent causes lasting changes.

Compare with post infectious tissue (changes)
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Postby Systemic » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:22 pm

Last edited by Systemic on Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tamtam » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:55 pm

Proper anti microbial treatment is possible if medical consensus becomes established.

To aknowledge that all concerns an infection with a highly modified man made infectious agents seems not without an enormous political load.

You also could state " one flew over Cucoo' s nest " and in this case by many innocent people including the very young.

The shortest road to a cure could be via court instead via the existing health system.

What you maybe experience next to this infection
is the effect of the integration of communist tactics into a capitalist system.
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Postby tamtam » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:56 pm

Example "postinfectious"

[PDF] Animal models of postinfectious obesity: Hypothesis and review
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
either progressively lost in the postinfectious period. due to viral cytopathic effects and/or, ... tine histopathological examination of brain tissue ... - Similar pages
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Postby Skytroll » Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:34 pm

tamtam wrote:Skytrol,

You talk yourself into the bushes.

What you suffer from is an infection!

This means that there is an etiological agent.
If you get proper anti microbial therapy your symptoms will go away.

However, what you mention could partially apply if the agent causes lasting changes.

Compare with post infectious tissue (changes)

Tam Tam,

I resent this. I have been to a hospital was given antibiotics, prednisone, which caused clostridium difficulis, it was hell, and the c diff was from my doc who did not give me anymore meds. And, I do not care for any.

Worms do not need antibiotics, but the Wolbachia would. Worms need antihelminths. Albendazole, you know what they give someone who has "Hidden Colitis" in America.

Oh, yeah a vaccine for obesity is on the way too isn't it? Do you know why there is obesity, one has to feed the worm and the person, you see.

Worms gain weight when fed.

Hitting a chord TT? I assume you do not agree with me?

So what? I see you do not believe in Dermatopathologists who just might be our ticket out of this Morgellons riddle.

Look at this:
"Do Pathologists make a difference with patient care? Unquestionably YES! Nearly every diagnosis your physician makes is a direct result of the pathologist's oversight and expertise. The pathologist will review a biopsy specimen and render a diagnosis. The laboratory test your physician orders can only be ordered if the pathologist oversees the laboratory and the personnel performing the test. In many cases, the pathologist will consult with your physician on an abnormal laboratory test value, suggest alternative tests, or recommend a different test that may enable a more accurate diagnosis for you. In all cases, the pathologist is rendering a professional opinion but you, the patient, are unaware of these interactions. Pathologists perform these vital tasks with little fanfare or recognition, and oftentimes, without payment. Yet, their actions are no less important to your overall care as a surgical procedure or a physical examination.

We will be collecting examples of pathologists who, by their actions, took the extra step to investigate a laboratory problem, resulting in a significant difference for the care of the patient. There are proactive measures pathologists have taken to reduce ordering of unnecessary tests or streamlining laboratory panels.

A Patient with Unexplained Anemia

Sadly, there are organizations that are actively campaigning to reduce or eliminate any compensation to pathologists for their oversight of the clinical laboratory. The article below highlights recent struggles pathologists have faced in this arena.

AMA House Adopts CAP-Sponsored
Part A Payment Recommendations

The American Medical Association's House of Delegates (HOD) last week approved and, at the College's urging, strengthened language opposing arrangements that force pathologists to accept no or token payment for their oversight of hospital laboratories.

At the AMA's Dec. 7 to 11 Interim Meeting, in New Orleans, the HOD approved a report from AMA Council on Medical Services on the issue. The report recommended that the AMA oppose arrangements that force pathologists to accept no or token payment for the medical direction and supervision of hospital-based clinical laboratories and also called on the federal government, state medical societies, the American Hospital Association and other hospital organizations to eliminate such arrangements.

The College succeeded in adding a third recommendation to the report: that the AMA urge the Department of Health and Human Services' Office of Inspector General (OIG) to revise its hospital compliance document to state that "token or no payment for pathologist Part A medical direction and supervision services in exchange for Part B referrals violates the anti-kickback statute." The recommendation is timely, as the OIG has announced that it will review the hospital fraud and abuse compliance guidance for possible revision to reflect changes that have occurred since the guidance was issued in 1998.
The report reflects close collaboration over the past year between the College and the AMA Council on Medical Services and grew from a 2001 resolution sponsored by the California Medical Association on behalf of the California Society of Pathologists and supported by the CAP. The document prominently notes the College's position on payment to hospital-based pathologists and details years of College advocacy on the issue.

The report focuses, in large part, on the problem of no or token Part A Medicare payment to pathologists who oversee hospital laboratories. Pathologists often are forced to forgo payment for these services, which is included in Medicare diagnosis related group payments to hospitals, in exchange for the opportunity to provide Medicare Part B services for hospital patients.
The College has long opposed such arrangements and, through persistent advocacy, received federal support for its position. The OIG, in a 1991 report and in its subsequent hospital compliance guidance, said the arrangements may run afoul of Medicare anti-kickback statutes and should be avoided. But the OIG has stopped short of calling such arrangements outright violations by hospitals and, as such, the College has sought stronger language.

Several state medical societies and specialty organizations supported AMA approval of the report last week, which reflected an organized campaign that involved the leadership of the CAP Delegation to the House and AMA Pathology Caucus members.
Source CAP STATLINE--Dec. 18, 2002 (Volume 18, Number 24)" ... erence.htm


This is interesting! What was your count? ... openia.htm

And for the rest of us who want some bonifide pathologists who can really read LESIONS and the pictures of them, we could put them to work.

Internet Links
Who is the Pathologist?
Who is the Dermatopathologist?
News You Can Use-A behind the scenes look at today's headlines described by a pathologist
How The Doctor's Doctor Makes A Difference for Patients

from above link: ... erence.htm

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Protease and Morgellons

Postby WLR » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:15 pm

I have been reading the post to this forum for a few weeks now and quietly absorbing as much as possible. I am not a scientist, biologist or doctor and do not have a degree but I do have an intense hatrid for this thing that lives inside me and a determination to find a way to kill it. I have studied alternative medicine for 30+ years and believe that may be the only way to rid our bodies of this demon. I have had Morgellons for 2-3 years and just started having symptoms of biting and crawling sensations since June of this year but have been able to track backwards using my other symptoms to when I think I may have been infected.

I have researched and talked with several specialists and have come up with a plan of attack and I will know soon if it is working even though it seems to be at this time. As soon as I determine if it is working I will share what I'm doing with everyone. I'm not trying to sell something but to help those that are suffering as I and my family have. This information should be free especially to those families and individuals that have been so devastated by this horrible disease.

I'm not waiting for the CDC or the medical community to take an interest and start helping us. What have they done for people with HIV/AIDS and Lyme Disease and many other diseases? The medical community does not seem to cure anyone and all they seem to want to do is take my money and give me drugs that have side effects worse than the symptoms I had in the first place. If you are thinking there is no love lost between me and the medical community and the CDC then you are correct in that assumption! My eyes were opened to their ways 35 years ago when my daughter was born with severe allergies and the doctors told me she was projectile vomiting because I wasn't feeding her formula to her right when actually she was allergic to her formula or 25 years ago when they told me there was nothing wrong with me and that I needed to see a psychiatrist when I actually had Lupus and it took 10 years before the blood test proved it. Again this July when they sent my 85 year old mom home with me to die from breast cancer because they misdiagnosed her condition a year ago!!!! Yes, I do have an axe to grind.

This is my favorite forum because everyone here seems to be intelligent, sane and determined to find the cause and a cure. Sounding sane is an understatement as everyone with this disease can relate and there are days I wonder myself sometimes.

In my research I have discovered that protease makes this condition worse. I have tested this theory twice and have gotten the same result both times. Can someone tell me what is the relationship between these organisms and protease and why do they like it so much and why do they seem to reproduce so much faster when I'm taking it? It seems like someone was saying something about protease a week or so ago but I could not find it.

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Postby tamtam » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:44 pm


"You tend to simplify microbial resistance"

There are so many anti microbial agents that do not work against certain species or strains that it is standard procedure to perform susceptibilty tests.

As earlier stated: this particular agent is about anti microbial resistance.

Much of this resistance relates to the fact that prototheca like micro organisms are very difficult to erradicate.

Next to this it concerns a synthetic model organism that (in culture) also will develop into a trypanosome - like - micro organism.

If this observation is consistent, it would be logic to associate the concept with variant glycoprotein like properties known from trypanosomiasis.

The overal concept seems fine tuned towards evasion of the immune system (...)

This idea is partially confirmed by the fact that filamentous "artifacts" are not or poorly recognized during genesis in tissue (skin, muscle, organs)

"What most people observe relates strongly to a process of polymerization and this process can be accumulative"

The true problem could be that you would have to treat infection as well as protothecosis as trypanosomiasis and than still have to conclude that treatment would not be effective (...)

Last edited by tamtam on Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Skytroll » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:56 pm


Welcome. You have said so much in your post.

Proteases, yes, one of the four, I talked of.

Proteases a definition:
Proteases, being themselves proteins, are known to be cleaved by other protease molecules, sometimes of the same variety. This may be an important method of regulation of peptidase activity.

"The plot thickens
Paradoxically, our overall picture of proteases becomes fuzzier the more we find out about them. Research has brought more and more details to light: there are even active proteases in the cell membrane; that is, in a hydrophobic environment (see 'Intramembrane proteolysis: RIPping and folding'); the logistics of the busy protein transport system within cells is controlled by proteases; the immune system is supplied with information from proteases via antigens; and several receptors on important signal transmission pathways are activated by proteases (see 'Signalling: from the outside in'). It is not yet possible to piece together these parts of the protease mosaic to give a conclusive picture.

So, protease researchers are turning to technologies developed in genomic and proteomic research (see 'The great substrate hunt'). This promises a new perspective in the near future: an overview of all the proteases that exist and their substrates, and a panoramic view of the proteolytic networks and their biological significance. It is estimated that up to 1,200 human genes (4.5% of our genome) encode proteases; with the majority of these genes remaining to be discovered. The current version (22 September 2003) of the MEROPS database, which specializes in proteases, lists 475 known and putative proteases and 103 homologues to known proteases in humans.

Proteases will certainly soon have shrugged off their traditional image as destructive aggressors. Their signals influence many essential processes of human physiology. Their cascades act as elaborately spun and defining threads in the web of life. That reminds us of the three fates in Greek mythology, Clotho, Lachesis and Atropos, whose job is to create the destiny for each living being - to weave the web of life, to measure and cut. Proteases could be their most important tools. More than any other molecules, they seem to manifest the dynamics of life, the eternal rhythm of life and death."

more here, but, this sounds exactly like the Bacteriphage: Similar just a different name. ... ective.htm

Nature is an Evolutionary magazine, IMO.

I believe that these bacteriophages are the same as the protease put in drug inhibitors.
Bacteriophages, the same was said about them, and yet Pasteur Institute and many other drug companies are already using them. They are protein specific, bacterial specific.
Herein is the problem are they attacking the bad bacteria, or are they attacking the good proteases in our bodies. Proteases - protein related, but the inhibitors operate just like the bacteriophages which are bacteria specific. If they do not target the correct protein or the correct bacteria, then they attack nearby proteins, folding etc, and/or
neighboring bacteria.
So, if we can distinguish between what is a bacteriophage and a proteome, then we can get there.
Protease, sounds like protein teasing, doesn't it?
I believe as you, it is bacteria that causes disease, not defective proteins in us. It is not genetic, mutations are genetic, but something caused that mutation, that is what I am after.
Most likely, bacteria or genetic altered bacteria that biofilms with the already heavy bacterial load humans carry is cause for disease.
However, when proteins are altered therein it becomes a mutated genetic problem. Genetically altered vectors that carry altered proteins can cause mutations in hosts, I think. Might be wrong here, but, then again.......

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