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The Fiber Disease

Human Anatomy, Physiology, and Medicine. Anything human!

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Postby Linn » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:06 pm

A message for proffesionals:

Please do not in any way confuse some of the posters on this forum
as being at all in agreement with the issues at hand.

This is a public forum, and the views expressed herein
are not necessarily the views shared by all.
some, of the people are obviously seriously ill,
and I leave this up to individule interpretation as
to the type of illness/s they may be suffering.

I hope that some of the things that have been discussed here,
and the way they have been discussed, does not hinder you from investigating this disease, as any thing other than D.O.P or psychosis of any form.

observations have been expressed by some
time and again, that
many of the things said do not lend any credability
to this disease what so ever, but stack the evidence in
favor of the basket of those who do not believe us to begin with.

It makes me wonder who the devisive factors really are :wink:

Sincerely,
Lynne
Last edited by Linn on Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

~ George washington Carver
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good question

Postby southcity » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:23 pm

which leads me to ask, how are we to know when some of the most telling signs of this question are censored/deleted. these deletions of posts speak volumes concerning who is who.


and london says: "Do not have time to read you guys post at the moment."


I ask then... why and what are you posting for? what point are you trying to make and what is your point concerning?
Southcity


"First they ignore you...
Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Postby Linn » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:37 pm

these deletions of posts speak volumes concerning who is who.

as far as I am aware,
offensive, off topic, defamatory posts should be removed.
As well, as any other posts that violate the forum rules. The moderators have been more than gracious in allowing this discusion to continue. In terms of quantity this surpasses any other forum, but in turms of quality, it is so lacking :( .
John brought some unity and intelligence to the conversation, and he was viciously attaked.
hmmmm :idea:
Why is that? does someone want to dis-credit all the logical, rational, theories, about this disease, or bury credable explanations under a pile obsurd conjectural rubbish.
Take some time to read through the posts, and ask yourself what is nonscence and what is not.

those who have been posting for the last few months,
should realize by now how many unknown guests are watching.
I am embarrased at this pont that I had any thing to do with this forum topic at all.

Sincerely,
Lynne
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

~ George washington Carver
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Postby Linn » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:43 pm

to southcity;
I am in no way directing any thing I said to you.
I want to thank you , I have heard and seen the diligence that you have had to help bring this fiber problem to the fore.
I agree with john the focus should be on the fibers.
The lesions can be caused by so many other things.
But the fibers are definetly the common denominator.
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

~ George washington Carver
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Postby Cilla » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:01 pm

Hi Southcity,

There is so much that is important in your post, I do not know where to start.

I believe everything that you have said in it, except that I am unsure that any possible stray target, (well the original one anyway), would have been released other than by accident.

I do not think that it would have been done to obtain the revenues from long term pharmacological treatment, although this would certainly be a welcome 'bonus' to the drugs industry etc., and I can also imagine (if there ever was a 'cover up' of any leak, or breach of protocol) people convincing each other that it would be best to say nothing, because the drug treatment is 'out there' for any sufferers.

I may have misunderstood you, but do you think that the original leak, (if this is what happened), of a genetically modified micro-organism was done on purpose, in order to generate funding from prescribed drugs?

I would like to answer some of the other points that you made, if that is all right.

You said:

'Do you believe that industry is unrepresented in forum groups such as this one? You would be foolish to believe they are not',

My answer is: 'No.', and, 'You would indeed, or else painfully naive.'

You said:

'Perhaps you have even been able to detect a few of these people......Once you are alert to this reality, these people are not so difficult to spot.'

My answer is: 'This is a bit more difficult. I suppose a person might be able to detect patterns within another person's overall posts, and questions might arise re. "Whose interests would that particular suggestion serve?", or, "Why might that specific theory have been cunningly, but ever so subtly, not quite denigrated, but sort of been relegated to the back burner?" In a peculiar sort of way, the more intelligent such a suspected person may be, the more easy it may be to spot strange things, because they may well underestimate the 'nous' or, (especially) the wisdom gained from experience in life generally, or the cleverness of others. I am not sure. I think that I could tell you, with a much sharper degree of accuracy, who is definitely 100% genuine.'

You said:

'This is what we are up against, not the debate over the findings of the video.'

My answer: 'Not being technically minded, I myself am convinced, not by the video as such, but more by the words uttered by Tam tam, and the fact that nothing else would seem to explain the clinical features of this very strange disease.'

You said:

'The only way to big research that I can come up with is the outrage and concern of the general public.'

My answer: 'This could only be achieved if proven in the criminal courts of America. I know that Tam tam said this ages ago. At that time I thought he might not understand the law, but now I think that he does.'

You said:

'The video, regardless if fact or fiction (i believe fact), is still the best tool I have seen to achieve this goal. and remember that Industry has all the money needed to control information.'

My answer: 'I believe it is definitely factual. The micro-organisms observed are done so through a state of the art electron microscope, and the "sarcoidosis-like" look of the skin example is clinically both congruent and convincing, on every level. The ways in which the flies are shown to emerge is the only explanation possible for the ensuing type of myiasis seen at a certain level of infection, so I think that it is an important tool in achieving the goal. I am not convinced that it is a money rich Industry as such that is controlling the information. This may well be part of it, but it seems to me that individuals might be trying to do this, in an amateurish kind of way.'

You said:

'These realities are incredibly important to bear in mind when reading or viewing any new information which becomes available.'

My answer: 'Agreed, but I think that the words "incredibly important" are not strong enough. If people do not keep these realities to the forefront of their minds, when reading or viewing any post, or other information, they will miscalculate badly.'

You said:

'The bottom line is that the general public must begin asking questions about this disorder without having to become infected themselves.'

My answer: 'I do not think that you will be able to persuade the general public, unless you first persuade scientists and medics at the highest level, such as government level. Litigation, and legal discovery of documentation, records etc. is the best way, ultimately. Any interested scientist or medic picked up along the way can help immeasurably. It is self-destructive in the extreme to shun them, particularly if they are assisting in the refining of scientific arguments and such. If you are going to rely wholly on the empathy or sympathy of Joe Public, then I truly pity you all.'

All I can say is what I truly feel to be the facts. Who would you all regard as the very best friend a person can have? Some would say the person's mother or father, or God.

Any person on this site who only tells you what you want to hear is maybe good at stroking your ego.

If, however, someone is trying to tell you the best way to get help, and to get it soon, from an appropriate doctor, and repeats this despite everything, who might your very best friend advise that you trust? The same goes for not alienating medics and scientists.
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how do I get in here?

Postby carriescamp » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:13 pm

It's hard to keep up with this thread.

Cillia...you said this:
Oh but, I forgot! Some hyphae can change their colours and shapes. Yet, I do not think that anyone has ever said that their demise can only ever be effected by cholinergic blockade. A creature needs to have neuro-muscular junctions along its body for that to be the type of chemical required!

DO YOU HAVE DOCUMENTS TO PROVE THIS? ARE WE KEEPING IN MIND THAT OUR FIBERS ARE MACROSCOPIC? THEREFORE ARE NOT FUNGAL? I AGREE WITH CHEMICAL AND/OR ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS CAN CHANGE THE COLOR OF OUR FIBERS BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER HOW LARGE OUR FIBERS ARE. HYPHAE ARE EXTREMELY MICRO.

Well, John was asking the right questions re how to differentiate between fibers that may be environmental contaminants, and those which are, frankly, alive and kicking!

THESE FIBERS ARE CLEARLY NOT ENVIRONMENTAT CONTAMINANTS. ENVIRONMENTAL IN WHAT CONTEXT? THESE FIBERS ARE EXTENDING FROM A MAIN ORGANISM. AND AGAIN...ALONG WITH THE MICRO FIBERS...THERE ARE MACRO TOO.

Then Cillia you said something about a scientist repeatedly asked a question that no one responded to on page 138...can't locate reply number. I was wondering if you could tell me how to find that question so I could investigate it.

About the disease being evident in year 2000...I'm not sure where exactly that statement came from. Maybe it was verbily recongnized and taken serious by some but I don't agree this is the year that it began destroying the lives of thousands. We have many of the same symptoms that were documented from the 1600's. Why and where Mary got the Morgellons name from. A name that too many may take very lightly. I have found myself to do the same thing only to come back time and time again to realize how important those writings really are.

About Lyme disease and fibers. Again any aspect of Lyme disease is going to be microscopic. Lyme disease can not be producing our fibers. There may be many factors that look, feel and appear similar but we shouldn't confuse the facts. Facts are the facts. We can see our fibers with our the aid of a microscope. This is why the micro aspect of this disease really becomes secong to the macro aspect of the disease. Perhaps why we need not focus so much on bacteria and fungus and move to the area of organisms that we can see that can produce organisms that we can see as well.

Mr. John Kern...my apoligies for the unknow statements made against you. However, I would still like to talk to you about a few things and am having a hard time getting on here with you so we could possibly converse. Is there any suggestions?
Last edited by carriescamp on Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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to cilla

Postby southcity » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:27 pm

I agree with you as far as it being an accidental release. However it appears this accident is being used to the advantage of these groups. In fact I would go so far as to say it is being nurtured at this point.



Cilla wrote:Hi Southcity,

There is so much that is important in your post, I do not know where to start.

I believe everything that you have said in it, except that I am unsure that any possible stray target, (well the original one anyway), would have been released other than by accident.

I do not think that it would have been done to obtain the revenues from long term pharmacological treatment, although this would certainly be a welcome 'bonus' to the drugs industry etc., and I can also imagine (if there ever was a 'cover up' of any leak, or breach of protocol) people convincing each other that it would be best to say nothing, because the drug treatment is 'out there' for any sufferers.

I may have misunderstood you, but do you think that the original leak, (if this is what happened), of a genetically modified micro-organism was done on purpose, in order to generate funding from prescribed drugs?

I would like to answer some of the other points that you made, if that is all right.

You said:

'Do you believe that industry is unrepresented in forum groups such as this one? You would be foolish to believe they are not',

My answer is: 'No.', and, 'You would indeed, or else painfully naive.'

You said:

'Perhaps you have even been able to detect a few of these people......Once you are alert to this reality, these people are not so difficult to spot.'

My answer is: 'This is a bit more difficult. I suppose a person might be able to detect patterns within another person's overall posts, and questions might arise re. "Whose interests would that particular suggestion serve?", or, "Why might that specific theory have been cunningly, but ever so subtly, not quite denigrated, but sort of been relegated to the back burner?" In a peculiar sort of way, the more intelligent such a suspected person may be, the more easy it may be to spot strange things, because they may well underestimate the 'nous' or, (especially) the wisdom gained from experience in life generally, or the cleverness of others. I am not sure. I think that I could tell you, with a much sharper degree of accuracy, who is definitely 100% genuine.'

You said:

'This is what we are up against, not the debate over the findings of the video.'

My answer: 'Not being technically minded, I myself am convinced, not by the video as such, but more by the words uttered by Tam tam, and the fact that nothing else would seem to explain the clinical features of this very strange disease.'

You said:

'The only way to big research that I can come up with is the outrage and concern of the general public.'

My answer: 'This could only be achieved if proven in the criminal courts of America. I know that Tam tam said this ages ago. At that time I thought he might not understand the law, but now I think that he does.'

You said:

'The video, regardless if fact or fiction (i believe fact), is still the best tool I have seen to achieve this goal. and remember that Industry has all the money needed to control information.'

My answer: 'I believe it is definitely factual. The micro-organisms observed are done so through a state of the art electron microscope, and the "sarcoidosis-like" look of the skin example is clinically both congruent and convincing, on every level. The ways in which the flies are shown to emerge is the only explanation possible for the ensuing type of myiasis seen at a certain level of infection, so I think that it is an important tool in achieving the goal. I am not convinced that it is a money rich Industry as such that is controlling the information. This may well be part of it, but it seems to me that individuals might be trying to do this, in an amateurish kind of way.'

You said:

'These realities are incredibly important to bear in mind when reading or viewing any new information which becomes available.'

My answer: 'Agreed, but I think that the words "incredibly important" are not strong enough. If people do not keep these realities to the forefront of their minds, when reading or viewing any post, or other information, they will miscalculate badly.'

You said:

'The bottom line is that the general public must begin asking questions about this disorder without having to become infected themselves.'

My answer: 'I do not think that you will be able to persuade the general public, unless you first persuade scientists and medics at the highest level, such as government level. Litigation, and legal discovery of documentation, records etc. is the best way, ultimately. Any interested scientist or medic picked up along the way can help immeasurably. It is self-destructive in the extreme to shun them, particularly if they are assisting in the refining of scientific arguments and such. If you are going to rely wholly on the empathy or sympathy of Joe Public, then I truly pity you all.'

All I can say is what I truly feel to be the facts. Who would you all regard as the very best friend a person can have? Some would say the person's mother or father, or God.

Any person on this site who only tells you what you want to hear is maybe good at stroking your ego.

If, however, someone is trying to tell you the best way to get help, and to get it soon, from an appropriate doctor, and repeats this despite everything, who might your very best friend advise that you trust? The same goes for not alienating medics and scientists.
Southcity


"First they ignore you...
Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Postby southcity » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:31 pm

also cilla;

the medics and researchers are not the ones I speak of. they infact are the ones whose hands are tied by those controlling the research budgets.
Southcity


"First they ignore you...
Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Postby southcity » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:34 pm

This topic has been overlooked and not discussed for far too long.

How to spot a dis-information specialist.

All who are infected with this illness and have been watching all the discussions concerning it are aware of some items. These I will discuss here today. First of all there are many interest groups set up to defend this issue. They have done so primarily by enforcing/ promoting the delusions of parasites theory. We know this as fact but have you considered exactly how they have and continue to promote this?

First of all, many of the people who are active in this discussion do not have this illness(though many say they do). They are paid by various interest groups to discredit the illness and also those whom have it. It is their job to monitor the different discussion groups and sabotage any real organization or logical posts made by anyone. this happens with a number of controversial topics, including this one. they are not unique to this illnesses discussions. That said lets look at some of the ways they do this.

Ways to spot this type of behaviour
1. Use derogatory language and fly off the handle.

2. they will call others names and make insinuating remarks and otherwise say anything to discredit any valid points being made concerning the topic. they will question others character often.

3. They will most often have the largest number of posts of any of the sites other members. Often by 10 to 20 times as many posts as others making valid points in each particular discussion.

4. Often they will be the very first person to reply after any thought provoking post concerning the topic is made. NOTE: they will often throw out a string of unrelated information and links pointing in many different directions to confuse the point previously made.

5. they present an overabundance of information and avenues of direction to follow up on for those reading/researching. Most information upon looking further into actually has NOTHING to do with what is being discussed. This also is meant to confuse an issue and also serves to make all involved to appear mental or conspiratorial. THIS ALSO SERVES IN MAKING OTHERS LOSE INTEREST IN TOPIC simply because of extremely long discussion threads with an enourmous amount of unrelated information. In our case concerning this illness, I have been told by a dozen or more people that some threads are avoided simply by seeing particular people having been an active participant in the discussion. They annoy people to the point of losing interest, no matter how interesting a topic may be.


6. They claim to have the answer constantly, but each time the answer is different from the any other previously made. Look for the phrases “This is it” or “like I have said before” “I know this is involved” esp. when topic is known to still be a mystery. They will say anything to confuse the reader and get them off track. they are extremely non consistent in thier beliefs.

7. they are non focused and each day will present new and “important information” which is most often non related to their other important info posted previously.

8. often remarks made by them out of frustration is then censored and deleted from discussion.

9. they are intelligent people, but because of the constant posting and monitoring of the discussions, appear to be unemployed. Note: simply tract the times of which their posts are made. Most people will post around the same time of day because of work, family and other responsibilities and obligations.


Ok I think I have made my point. This is not a complete list of methods involved by these people, not by a long shot. But you hopefully get the point and can now start to see through the smoke screen they are responsible for. Do not doubt these people exist. They do and are very active in all types of debatable topics. Trust your gut feelings as they are most often quite correct.
Southcity


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Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Postby Cilla » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:37 pm

Hi Lynne,

It is not so much what the medical professionals might believe, I think, or not solely this.

They are not going to come on to any site where, e.g. named places or people are libelled.

Just because a person expresses an opinion here does not in itself make them right. They may not be in full possession of the facts, for example.

People who say that they do not care if they are sued should be very careful to think through what it all means, because in some circumstances a person can also lose their professional licence to practise.

I do not know any doctor in his or her right mind who would wish to be involved in any such debacle.

They are also not going to come on to any site where the care and treatment of specific doctors, or that possibly carried out at an identifiable location, has been not only criticised, but actually reversed. This is the sort of nonsense I have heard of on other sites.

Such intervention by no doubt well meaning amateurs has led to tragedy in the past. Do you think that a doctor would relish having to explain his or her input to the Coroner?

There is no doctor in his or her right mind who wishes to be part of any carry on instituted by people who, once again, might not be in full possession of the facts.

My view is that it is you all who have to change your behaviour, or not adopt other behaviours seen at even worse sites.

It is not a meeting of equals. If medics or scientists come on to this site, it is they who are doing you the favour, so it has to be on their terms, not yours.

Maybe you think that you do not need them. You might conclude, well I've got by for the past six years.....

I think that you have to assess the future, and not take for granted that things will continue in the same way as in the past.

Have you considered the likely or possible hazards, yet, Sky?

I have a feeling that Southcity may have some kind of tentative gut feeling, (only about the future not necessarily mapping out in the exact same way as the past, nothing more).

Believe me, you need all of the doctors and scientists on this site that you can get.
Cilla
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Postby carriescamp » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:50 pm

Cillia did you see my post? After your post to South City?

How do you find the post numbers here?
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Postby London » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:16 pm

This message is To South:

You asked what was the purpose of my post earlier?

A: To alert others that it was not only their computers that were

effected- some others still cannot connect here.

Q: Why did'nt I have time to read you guys post?

A: 1. did not want to stay on this site using my computer
2. running late to go back to work.

Please note, in no way was post meant for you, I sincerely hope you do not think that.
again, I only could breeze thru the post this time again due to the fact that
I am at work now.

I hope this explains things......
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