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The Fiber Disease

Human Anatomy, Physiology, and Medicine. Anything human!

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Postby in_the_uk » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:22 am

I'm going to put a public notice in the local paper tomorrow. Hopefully it will be in time for this week. I will warn the population of this little town that Morgellons has arrived and the health centre will not help. I will put the MRF web address and my other email address as a contact. See if anyone else out there knows anything.
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Postby John Kern » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:23 am

in_the_uk wrote:John, the answer is: 2.

The layer of skin that came off my friend's foot looked so like tissue paper that he believes that it is tissue paper. I do not have any answer to that because I have only seen a photo. I will not tell him that it is not tissue paper because he can work it out. He is living the life and walking the walk and he will put his snippets together to make sense of it.


Hmm, sounds like some form of tinea (skin fungus). That cause the skin to flake off in layers. I had it once - sometime if you leave it alone, then do something like soak the foot, then the skin all comes off at once - pretty nasty.


in_the_uk wrote:"While this does not explain the dark fibers in other photos, it's an obvious and simple explanation for the "Objects emerging from a lesion", and Morgellons.org should no longer be claiming that these are somehow unusual,unidentified, hyphae-like structures. They look exactly like Kleenex fibers, soaked in blood. That's probably what they are."
http://morgellonswatch.blogspot.com/

Is this your work John?

Helen


I just posted the link, I thought the pictures were rather compelling. What do you think?

- John
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Postby in_the_uk » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:27 am

Please read the commet that I have left at the site of my quote. The comment count still reads 0 but if you click on hte button you will see what I think about the article.
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Postby in_the_uk » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:37 am

Lynne, no one has even mentioned botany so far. How would that work?

Helen
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Postby John Kern » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:42 am

Linn wrote:These fibers may be a product of the bacteria,
and are pushed out of the skin.
or they may be
some form of nematode or other organism.


I think the question of scale is very important here. If we can get a good measure of the size of the fibers, then we can get an idea of the size of the organzism that makes them.

Human arm hairs are about 50 microns in diameter. Head hairs are about twice as thick.

People, how thick are your fibers, compared to your arm hair (or head hair if you don't have any arm hair).

Might be hard to tell without a microscope to compare them.

Linn wrote:I am also trying to remember an organism which produces
black fibers. It is in the back of my head but |I can not remember.
I had come across articles previously years ago.
London can you help?


Lots of fungii produce hyphae, which looks like fibers. Meliola mangiferae creates tiny black fibers - that mostly attacks fruit, but shows it's possible for fungus to produce back fibers. I don't think it's a fungus though - as pushing through the skin does not sound like the type of thing a fungus does.

- John
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Postby Linn » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:45 am

:) Helen,
sorry I meant I may have come across that ( black fibers)
in my botany studies. I know it is in this brain of mine, I will sleep on it.
Tomorrow get out my books and notes if I can find them buried somewhere.
Or just start googling. Something i have done ENOUGH of. :(
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

~ George washington Carver
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Postby ukguy » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:48 am

John Kern wrote:
They found out what the object from Drew's lip were:

http://morgellonswatch.blogspot.com/200 ... hilds.html

John.



Hi John

You seem to assuming alot about something you know very little about.
You assume that the fibres taken from the child's lip were Kleenex?

How can you make a statement like that and then go on to ask
questions of the people you are obviously doubting?

You claim that you came here researching eczema yet you
post a link to a Blog which makes nonsensical assumptions
about a child's suffering?

Do you have a valid reason for being here...i.e. Have you come to
learn something or have you come to bestow knowledge on others?

I'll resist the urge to go further and play into your hands but still
I'd like to ask...what IS your agenda John?

Please remember that a great many people, some of them posting here,
are suffering with this disease to varying degrees. If you would like to
read some accounts of people's experiences the just head on over
to Lymebusters and spend some time reading without prejudice.
You may learn more than just about this disease.

Now then...

You wanted to know about the fibres.

I had been finding fibres occasionally on my skin in areas that were
itching. I thought nothing of it. I have other symptoms but you asked
about the fibres right ?

I had read many posts over at the Lymebusters site but I must admit,
I dismissed alot of what I read at the time. My symptoms were mainly
intense itching that would spread and radiate from a starting point
which could be anywhere on my body. I'd had alot of doctors
appointments and tried many treatments without success. One day
I read (I think on this site) that a 'test' for these fibres was to spray
tea tree oil on your skin and this would make the fibres emerge.

Nothing to lose. So I tried it. I bathed first (my clothes were not in the
bathroom, our towels are cream and white) and while still undressed
and in the bathroom, I sprayed the tea tree oil solution on my left
forearm. Parts of my arm began to tingle faintly. Very specific areas.
I was amazed to see black specks appear on my arm. The tingle
sensations would be accompanied by the emergence of more black
specks. I had about 10 or 12 on my left arm.

I now tried this same procedure on my right arm, with the same startling
results. I was able to repeat this on other areas of my body and
the same specks would emerge from the pores almost instantaneously.

Now am I to believe that my body suddenly became a static magnet at
those precise moments for 'black specks' that just happened to be lying
around in the bathroom and were able to launch themselves at the
locations I was spraying tea tree oil?

Believe me. I would rather static be the cause of this. But I can repeat
this every day and indeed do.

I saved the Black specks and bought a microscope. Under the microscope
the specks were seen to be BLUE fibres, almost tape-like in structure
and all very much the same. Since then I've seen mainly blue and
clear fibres (never white) and more recently black fibres. In fact now, for
some reason I see very few blue fibres, most are black or clear.

I own alot of blue clothes. I don't own ANY black at all.

Here are some photos of the fibres and other things I've found on
my body. Not a single Kleenex was hurt in the taking of these
photos :)

http://morgellons.shutterfly.com/action/

Now John, is dis-info any use to you ?

You know John. I'm thinking of you here....

Train spotting does nothing for me.
It's kind of like me, on the spur of the moment, deciding to find a
forum on the 'net frequented by Train Spotters. I have no
interest in Train Spotting whatsoever. It's like me, creating a Blog
called 'Aren't Train Spotters Boring' and then participating in that
forum I found. I could post a link to my Blog but say 'Hey, actually
I'm interested in steam trains'...Of course I'm not.

Of course I wouldn't waste my time.
Life has many more satisfying things to offer.

Ukguy
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Postby Linn » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:50 am

yes, this hyphae have been discussed here.
This is something I have the picture in my head of
(more specific) and sometimes they are in food,

I remember years ago I found some in spagetti sauce.
yes right from the jar freshly opened. :shock:
gross
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

~ George washington Carver
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Postby Linn » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:54 am

John,
I will let you know the size later/tomorrow
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these".

~ George washington Carver
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Postby in_the_uk » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:12 am

Who was it that said they did not know of any known organism that produces cellulose? somebody did a few pages back.

I looked at a conversation between Mary L from MRF and a Dr. Rockof http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/dermatolog ... 1706a.html

Mary provided two references:

Cellulose in human disease
http://www.botany.utexas.edu/facstaff/f ... stat39.htm

Cellulose Fibers in Scleroderma skin
http://www.botany.utexas.edu/facstaff/f ... igure5.htm

I haven't looked at them yet.

Helen

UPDATE:
spiders and silk worms produce fibres.
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Postby John Kern » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:23 am

ukguy wrote:I'll resist the urge to go further and play into your hands but still
I'd like to ask...what IS your agenda John?


I don't have an agenda, as such. I'm just really interested.

No, I don't have Morgellons. I do have a variety of chronic skin conditions, Tinea I've had for twenty years, psoriasis maybe - no diagnosis yet. I also have some form of chemical sensitivity that makes me break out in hives that cover my entire body and are very uncomfortable. I'm also overly sensitive to scented products - drives my wife mad...

I found morgellons.org because it was linked from some other skin disease forum. I found the subject fascinating - I only had some of the symptoms, but I can relate to the sensations. The fibers were, of course, a novel addition (to my knowledge). I wanted to look into the research - but as you know there does not seem to be any mainstream reasearch going on. So I just started reading everything I could find, which led me here. I guess I have too much time on my hands.


ukguy wrote:I had read many posts over at the Lymebusters site but I must admit,
I dismissed alot of what I read at the time. My symptoms were mainly
intense itching that would spread and radiate from a starting point
which could be anywhere on my body. I'd had alot of doctors
appointments and tried many treatments without success. One day
I read (I think on this site) that a 'test' for these fibres was to spray
tea tree oil on your skin and this would make the fibres emerge.

Nothing to lose. So I tried it. I bathed first (my clothes were not in the
bathroom, our towels are cream and white) and while still undressed
and in the bathroom, I sprayed the tea tree oil solution on my left
forearm. Parts of my arm began to tingle faintly. Very specific areas.
I was amazed to see black specks appear on my arm. The tingle
sensations would be accompanied by the emergence of more black
specks. I had about 10 or 12 on my left arm.

I now tried this same procedure on my right arm, with the same startling
results. I was able to repeat this on other areas of my body and
the same specks would emerge from the pores almost instantaneously.

Now am I to believe that my body suddenly became a static magnet at
those precise moments for 'black specks' that just happened to be lying
around in the bathroom and were able to launch themselves at the
locations I was spraying tea tree oil?

Believe me. I would rather static be the cause of this. But I can repeat
this every day and indeed do.

I saved the Black specks and bought a microscope. Under the microscope
the specks were seen to be BLUE fibres, almost tape-like in structure
and all very much the same. Since then I've seen mainly blue and
clear fibres (never white) and more recently black fibres. In fact now, for
some reason I see very few blue fibres, most are black or clear.

I own alot of blue clothes. I don't own ANY black at all.

Here are some photos of the fibres and other things I've found on
my body. Not a single Kleenex was hurt in the taking of these
photos :)

http://morgellons.shutterfly.com/action/

Now John, is dis-info any use to you ?

Ukguy


UkGuy, I believe what you are saying - I'm just of a scientific background, so it's in my nature to try eliminate possibilities before accepting extraordinary conclusions.

What that your experience been in presenting this evident to medical professionals? I presume it's been bad, as that's what I read in general.

I mean no dis-respect here, but it seem like there should be a scientific process of elimination to narrow down what is going on. Have you tried:

- Using things other than tea tree oil
- counting the objects, then repeating at timed intervals, to see if the production rate varies over time.
- Spraying tea tree oil on various parts of the body to see what the production rate is.
- Spraying tea tree oil on your spouse.
- spraying tea tree oil on an inert object to see if anything emerges
- going to a hotel and trying there.
- comparing the object you find with detritus from vaious location in and out of the home to see if there is any correlation.
- performing simple experiment on the objects (do they float, do they dissolve in water, do they repel a thin film of oil on the surface of a bowl of water, do they smell, do they burn, what kind of smoke smell, can you culture them in agar, plant them in rooting gel ....).

There are lots of things that could be tried - In a very tiny way I'd like to have Morgellons, since it's a new and unique condition, and ripe for much experimentation. Luckily I don't - but I'm still fascinated.

- John
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Postby Skytroll » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:01 am

We have done all the above, John Kern,

I have had this for 15 years, and we have gone from over 37 theories to 6, with many types of things going on.

You know Scientific Revolution takes some time, and an uncommon paradigm, will of course be snubbed, because it is not popular.

It takes one, with the truth to start the ball rolling,
and in this case, there is more than one, so we have a good start.

It is not easy challenging a 40-50 year old paradigm that started on the wrong foot.

Make that a 100 year old paradigm.

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