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Ethics of Fishing

Animals!

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Are fishermen bad people?

Yea, George Bush should fire up O'le Sparky
5
36%
Nope, fish don't have feelings
8
57%
It's against my religion to answer this question.
1
7%
 
Total votes : 14

Postby thank.darwin » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:42 pm

If we are causing a specie to decline in population then we should do something... If not then just let nature take its path.
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Postby biostudent84 » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:20 pm

thank.darwin wrote:If we are causing a specie to decline in population then we should do something... If not then just let nature take its path.


The problem is that there are so many unknown factors in anything like this, that there is no way we can say that we ARE causing the decline, and there is no way we can say we are NOT causing the decline.

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Postby mith » Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:39 am

It would kinda depend on how "direct" you want to look. I mean if you go thru how we do one thing and it leads to another which causes another...ad infinitum...and it causes extinction, then of course it would be impossible. But say if we are only looking at direct, like say hunting or pollution then it should be easier to clarify.
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Postby thank.darwin » Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:09 pm

Right mithrilhack...
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right

Postby 2810712 » Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:59 am

If we are causing a specie to decline in population then we should do something... If not then just let nature take its path.
-thank.darwin

ya, if we are doing some non-natural activities which affect the nature adversely then we must do some more non-natural or natural activities to nutralize those adverse effects.
Not knowing the effect of our acts on the nature can create new problems , thus we should know how much and in what way do we contribute to the problem. This knowlwdge will also help create solutions.

And meat add so much different and delicious taste to food
-Patrick
May be, I am a veggie :D

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Postby jr659 » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:40 pm

oh come on how can you tell me that fishing is wrong, or that fishermen are bad people are bad. however people who fish for sport alone and not for food are doing something very wrong. you can't tell me there all the same. you can't stereotype, put them all in the same catogory.
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Postby MrMistery » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:34 pm

You are right jr659. people who fish for food do nothing wrong, fishing for sport however is a different story. I don't know how it is in other countries but here wherever there is a pond with fish in it you see people just "relaxing and spending some time by themselves" as they describe it.
"As a biologist, I firmly believe that when you're dead, you're dead. Except for what you live behind in history. That's the only afterlife" - J. Craig Venter
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yea, but

Postby 2810712 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:07 am

Yea, I M also saying the same, we can kill the fish within a certain limits so that it doesn't damage earth's ecobalance, See I don't object fishing for food , but only when there is no other optio , so I M not trying to ban it. But, people kill other organisms for fun , their enjoyment etc, I think they're going to be a mouse next life.

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recent work...

Postby Joel@WhiteMoose.Ca » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:21 pm

I think this fits in here...


From: Joel T.
To: bob.johnston@mnr.gov.on.ca ; Gerry.Weber@mczcr.gov.on.ca ; James.Antler@mczcr.gov.on.ca ; sbridge@nrcan.gc.ca ; chuck.orton@mnr.gov.on.ca ; bill.guthrie@mnr.gov.on.ca ; wayne.fiset@mnr.gov.on.ca ; wolfgang_haider@sfu.ca ; Dave.Harnish@mnr.gov.on.ca ; ron.reffle@mnr.gov.on.ca ; minister@mnr.gov.on.ca ; erik.wainio@mnr.gov.on.ca ; Rob.Galloway@mnr.gov.on.ca ; frank.miklas@mnr.gov.on.ca ; colin.higgins@mnr.gov.on.ca ; lorraine.norris@mnr.gov.on.ca ; jeff.wiltshire@mnr.gov.on.ca ; michael.gatt@mnr.gov.on.ca ; brian.pountney@ndm.gov.on.ca ; aaron.hoffe@ndm.gov.on.ca ; graham.campbell@ndm.gov.on.ca ; Info@noto.net ; laurie@noto.net ; madforest@nrtco.net ; doug@noto.net ; Todd@noto.net ; Jimgrayston@hotmail.com ; al@wildernessisland.com ; info@pinegroveresort.com ; abgarson13@yahoo.com ; sudaviat@vianet.on.ca ; lostlake@ntl.sympatico.ca ; john@sydneylake.com ; corky@wisc.edu ; islandlake@remotesat.com ; fish@bownarrows.com ; enid@vikingoutpost.com ; info@nwota.com ; Jerry_Ouelletteco@ontla.ola.org ; Grassy@wi.net ; rick.groves@tembec.com ; Tom.Croswell@tembec.com ; chris.mcdonell@tembec.com ; bill.thornton@mnr.gov.on.ca ; Dianne.Corbett@mnr.gov.on.ca ; peter.boxall@ualberta.ca ; len.hunt@mnr.gov.on.ca ; panda@wwfcanada.org ; information@sierraclub.org ; Ruth Edwards ; jocelyner@sierraclub.ca ; images@cnn.com
Cc: Joel T.
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:50 PM
Subject: White Moose - Recent News & Pic's...


Mr. Bob Johnston,

I would like to begin by stating that I've been highly impressed by the efforts of your staff and yourself to help me establish a walleye hatchery on Nemegosenda lake. It is my sincere hope that your team will perform with the same excellence in regards to the white moose projects. Fortunately for your team, the first task requested by my group will require little "work" other than a pen stroke with your signature. The document should indicate that as the individual with express authority from the Minister of Natural Resources to protect the White Moose in WMU 30 and 31, you authorize removal of moose (which are more than 50% white)

from the hunting roster for 2005.



You had indicated that such an act would require consultation with a team of biologists and no protection could be afforded without determining these animals to be a new species. However, this requirement was not needed to afford protection to the kermode (spirit) bears of BC. Nor was it needed to protect white moose in such jurisdictions as Alaska or Labrador. The apparent view of those responsible for implementing hunting regulations in these areas (and others) is that such rare animals are more valuable to the public alive, as the best viewing and photography opportunities come to an abrupt halt if the animal perishes. I, and thousands of others, see no valid reason why the same type of legislation would not be enacted to help protect these extremely rare animals. In fact, Resolution 05-66 was passed by City of Timmins on March 7, 2005 to formally request of the Minister of Natural Resources to regulate the hunting of White Moose and afford them a protected status as a unique symbol of Northern Ontario.

I should note that by no means am I asking for a permanent removal of moose, which are more than 50% white, from the hunting roster in Ontario. When the Armstrong strain of white moose is no longer such a rarity, the hunt should be re-opened and regulated. There should be permits issued specifically for White Moose. I'm proposing that Ontario begin to finally make use of its resources to their fullest potential and place these animals under tempory protection, similar to putting money in a bank to allow it to grow.

My research has indicated that no such legislation has been enacted because the MNR would prefer these animals removed from the general population, seemingly out of fear that they will spread faulty genes to the general herd. Personally, I don't think that evolution has simply stopped because humans have become so technologically advanced. These genes may actually be a blessing. A white moose would seem to have a distinct advantage over a brown moose during the winter months. Furthermore, if it is true that wolves hunt with their noses in the summer, white moose would seem to suffer no great disadvantage to brown moose. More interestingly, this strain appears to have an odd variation involving grey guard hairs (even on the calves) which i've not seen on other strains of white moose. Is it really that far fetched that this strain may have the genetic ability (with a little luck) to produce moose which can molt from brown to white seasonally, similar to a snow shoe rabbit? Due to the uniqueness of these animals, it would seem that the best way to protect them is a live capture and relocation into a large, mixed composition, fenced in, park. Given the fact that trains, automobiles, natural hazards (like falling through the ice), and natural predators are factors beyond our control, a fence is seemingly a temporary necessity.

If it is the case that these animals are merely genetic defects as the MNR apparently believes to be the case, separation from the herd would seem to be the most sensible solution. However, given the immense value in terms of creation and diversification of employment opportunities that could be created by these animals (in an area largely devoid of industry), a live capture and relocation into a large fenced in, mixed habitat, park would seem to be the most logical solution. Interestingly, both of our opinions lead to the same conclusion regarding the best course of action.


So, the second request that I am making of you is that you have your staff start the paper work process (which I and others will gladly assist) to issue the permits for a live capture and relocation of the White Moose in WMU 30 and WMU 31. Ordinarily, I would believe that only the Minister of Natural Resources would be capable to authorize such a live capture, but given my reciept of a recent letter from the Honorable David Ramsay (the current Minister of Natural Resources), it would seem that this authority has been delegated to your person. I will be providing more details very shortly regarding the proposed transfer location for captured white moose.

Thank you for your time and I am eager to continue working with you for the betterment of Northern Ontario.

Sincerely yours,

Joel Theriault
Joel@WhiteMoose.Ca
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Postby biostudent84 » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:28 am

mithrilhack wrote:It would kinda depend on how "direct" you want to look. I mean if you go thru how we do one thing and it leads to another which causes another...ad infinitum...and it causes extinction, then of course it would be impossible. But say if we are only looking at direct, like say hunting or pollution then it should be easier to clarify.


Absolutely right. It would make it easier to clarity. But it's also a gross oversimplification.

Why does my plant grow?
Oversimplified answer: I water it.
Full answer: It is an organism that carries out cell division, photosynthesis, and glycosis with the following reactions:
<<insert enough chemical reactions to literally fill an entire library of books>>
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Postby mith » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:18 am

Ummmm, should we allow the email addresses to be posted here?
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
~Niebuhr
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Postby Poison » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:51 pm

mithrilhack wrote:Ummmm, should we allow the email addresses to be posted here?

I have doubts too mithrillhack. I'm not sure if it is a good idea or not.
It matters not how strait the gate
How charged with punishment the scroll
I am the Master of my fate
I am the Captain of my soul.
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