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Postby iri_black » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:05 pm

The snake is not a samurai. it doesn't have a honor code. :D
I don't think they bite themselves.
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Postby b_d_41501 » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:15 pm

They don't bite themselves, but they do attack each other.
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Postby zami'87. » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:25 pm

hi! Did VERY BRIEF search:
In 1993 Japanese and Brazilian researchers independently identified a protein in the blood of a venomous snake that neutralizes its own venom. In laboratory tests in Australia, this protein, named Notechis scutatus inhibitor (NSI) after the tiger snake from the whose blood it was isolated, was effective against the venom of six other snakes.
from site http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/ency ... 08678.html
and for NSI
http://www.science.uts.edu.au/centres/ibu/snakes.html
but I'm sure there are better sites.
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Postby Dr.Stein » Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:07 am

Aha! Now you see, just listen to your lovely Dr.Stein! She is reliable :D :lol:
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Postby LrdGeno » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:27 pm

isn't it also possible for a snake to do a "dry" bite? I'm not a herpetologist so I have no idea, but I thought I heard from somewhere that they could.
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Postby Mahlon » Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:04 am

Ok, finally got a chance to come back on and reply so here goes....

First and foremost, in the situation i described between the king snake and the rattler, the rattler is not biting himself to commit suicide (lol) it is an accidental bite meant for the kingsnake, and once dead either due to its' own poison or the kingsnake suffocating it, it will be ingested by the kingsnake regardless so it is of no benefit for the snake to committ " suicide".

Secondly, while the research on the tiger snake shows that they are able to survive their own bite + those from a few other types of venomous snakes, you can't apply one species characteristic to all venomous snakes. (example being kingsnakes are immune to rattlesnake venom, kingsnakes are colubrids (non-venomous), therefore all colubrids are immune to rattle snakes, this is false logic and not a good habit to form)

It has been proven in the past that most types of venomous snakes are susceptible to their own venom, and I think that if we looked more into the tiger snake from Australia, we might find that this is a means for the tiger snake to be more productive in its' ecological niche.

Also as to the guy asking whether a venomous snake can do a "dry" bite, yes this is true. Most sub-adult and adult snakes can regulate the amount of venom they inject, ranging anywhere from a "dry" bite, all the way to a full venom sack divulgence. Alot of people have probably heard the urban legend about baby rattlesnakes being much more potent that the adults. While this is completely false, there is a basis for this urban legend in the fact that newborn venomous snakes do not have good control over their venom sacs. In example, a baby snake does not have the control to dry bite, or to inject only a necessary amount into the bite, it will empty its venom completely all at once (which for the snake isn't a very good idea considering the fact that the sacs take several days to produce more venom and the snake is now without it's best survival weapon)

I'll try to drum up some more info, feel free to post any questions, arguments, or whatever and I'll see what I can come up with.

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Postby Vada » Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:56 pm

That's a good information..! Thank you, I'll print it out to study it later.
Lol yea they do have brain so they know how to control their attitude with biting things :D
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Postby MrMistery » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:19 pm

Just because they have a brain does not mean that they can do anything with it. Well, it applies in this case, but there are a lot of things like sneezing which you can not control. I do not know if you have studies anatomy yet, but you will see there are a lot of things that you can not control about your body, reflexes that close in the lower parts of the central nervous system. Example: if you hear a sudden loud noise in front of you, you will blink. A simple somatic reflex that closes in the pons Varoli. Just to annoy you, here is a site where you can find a lot more info than you will probably ever need. This is quite a refference book, by the way..
http://www.bartleby.com/107/
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Postby Dr.Stein » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:53 am

If you study anatomy, you will know better for the structure of nerve system. If you want to study the mechanism or the process of reflex and other function of nerve system, I recommend you to study physiology :wink:
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Postby MrMistery » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:40 pm

I agree with Dr.Stein. Plus, anatomy is SUPER BORING!!!! Physiology is very nice, one of my favourite subjects. Unfortunately you need to know a little anatomy if you want to study animal physiology as it should be studied...
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Postby Dr.Stein » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:21 am

Yep. We cannot separate "structure" from "function" or "function" from "structure", which one is in the first and second place, it doesn't matter, it is just cannot be separated. It means that when we want to study the function, we must know the structure first. That is why in our curriculum here, anatomy is given earlier rather than physiology, because students must know "what is what" (passkey for anatomy) before they study "why and how" (passkey for physiology).

And yes, many students (now I know not only in my country but also here, there and everywhere) complain about the boring anatomy.. I think it is because we have to remember (I don't say we must memorize because it isn't the idea) all things. Simply because it is the primitive type of learning (C1) and this is the first way for beginners to study, well I'm sorry I must say this is like a force (sad but true). When they already "get into themselves", then they don't need to be forced that way and can study with the further type of learning (C2, C3, ..., C6).

I am a teacher and I should know this to help my students on their study. I don't just teach to give the knowlegde, I also help them when they have a problem, whether it is about study or private one. I prefer to be their facilitator rather than a teacher; facilitator sounds more friendly, yeah it is always nice to be friends, while teacher sounds like a preacher hehe... :lol:
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Postby MrMistery » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:03 pm

I find anatomy boring because there is nothing happening in anatomy....
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