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Origins of male and female,who was first ?

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Origins of male and female,who was first ?

Postby Realslowww » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:52 pm

I am curious about when the earliest male female sex relationship showed up and how long ago.From my reading the earliest fossil record to date has asexual bacteria here first and then some bacteria started having sex and that was when the male and female sexes showed up? or could it have been that the asexual bacteria was mother and then father showed up when the bacteria started engaging in sex? Thankyou very much.
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Postby JackBean » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:45 am

First of all, you can't have one gender without the other one. It just couldn't work ;)
Second, I don't think, bacteria have some gender or sex (like reproduction).
http://www.biolib.cz/en/main/

Cis or trans? That's what matters.
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Re: Origins of male and female,who was first ?

Postby Realslowww » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:39 am

From some reading I have been doing some bacteria were the first to engage in sexual behavior that put us on the road to the development of she the ovum and he the sperm,the reason I say the simple form of asexual bacteria may have been mother and father could be an offshoot of her is because we are now finding out I believe that he is completely grounded to the planet through her? and the entity he as in just a being is fragile compared to her and can be written genetically out of exsistence by her?
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Postby Sophyclese » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:01 pm

I must say that the qeustion you are asking cannot be answered by evolution. According to evolution, some cells evolved in the water, on land, etc. Cells themesleves donnot have a sex.So how could a cell then develope the genetic information suppoting a sex?
In the first place, cells and becteria would have evolved at the same time, for cells and bacteria are both on the same level (microscopic). Cells, unless they are metabolic, do not have any natural defense against bacteria. If the cell evolves on land, it would have died before it could even do much. Any cell coming from the water would have died just the same.
If you have further questions, please search for profile/send a message to Sophyclese.
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Postby mith » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:29 am

"cells and bacteria evolve at the same time"

Bacteria are cells! Do you know what you're talking about?
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Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
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Re: Origins of male and female,who was first ?

Postby Realslowww » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:49 am

I JUST WANt SOME CLARIFICATION ON THIS IF POSSIBLE, i AM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHEN HE AND SHE SHOWED UP ON THE SCENE. Thankyou any help would be gratly appreciated,

I just read that the earliest life on earth found was asexual bacteria and down the road some bacteria started engaging in a type of sex to boot life to the next level.
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Re: Origins of male and female,who was first ?

Postby robsabba » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:29 pm

Realslowww wrote:I JUST WANt SOME CLARIFICATION ON THIS IF POSSIBLE, i AM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHEN HE AND SHE SHOWED UP ON THE SCENE. Thankyou any help would be gratly appreciated,

I just read that the earliest life on earth found was asexual bacteria and down the road some bacteria started engaging in a type of sex to boot life to the next level.

Bacteria can exchange genetic information without any specialized gender. Some do this via pila and can even exchange genetic information with different species. There are also "mating types" with oomycete (water molds) and certain fungi. Primitive colonial organsism have specialized cells for sexual reproduction, though there is no gender. Ferns produce both male and female reproductive organs. These would be the starting points for the evolution of gender. In "higher" organisms, individuals became specialized to produce male or female gametes, rather than just cells or organs. We really don't know all the details, however. Hope that helps.
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Re:

Postby canalon » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:19 pm

Sophyclese wrote:I must say that the qeustion you are asking cannot be answered by evolution. According to evolution, some cells evolved in the water, on land, etc. Cells themesleves donnot have a sex.So how could a cell then develope the genetic information suppoting a sex?
In the first place, cells and becteria would have evolved at the same time, for cells and bacteria are both on the same level (microscopic). Cells, unless they are metabolic, do not have any natural defense against bacteria. If the cell evolves on land, it would have died before it could even do much. Any cell coming from the water would have died just the same.


Beside eye-watering orthography, this is very wrong. In fact sex and evolution are a very interesting subject. And even if as pointed above, not everything is clear there have been quite a lot of fascninatig work on the subject.
You can read more here and in there.
But for short, sex probably started without such a thing as differentiated, specialized genders but with equal mating types that would just insure that genetic material would be shared by less related individuals (inbreeding is of little evolutionary interest) and then gradually evolved into the observed dichotomy that we can see in the big sexual organisms. However multiple mating types (>100 IIRC) can be observed in some of those oomycetes species.
Patrick

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any proof. (Ashley Montague)
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Re: Origins of male and female,who was first ?

Postby Realslowww » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:08 am

Thanks for all the post,yaa it is real interesting and from the reading I am doing it seems to me the female is the dominant in general life form here on earth. They claim the male DNA is loosing genetic information and males could become obsolete?

If I had to gamble on it from the reading I have been doing I would bett mother was on the scene first. So many things point to that? Thanks!
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Postby canalon » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:21 am

Think about what is the definition of the male and the female! if there is only one sex it can only assumed to be female one, as by definition it will be egg carrying/laying one. This is a bit of a tautology...
I really suggest you read the book that was linked in "there" above. It will give you a good introduction on the subject and why the female might still need males...
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