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Any SOLID arguments against evolution?

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Re: Any SOLID arguments against evolution?

Postby robsabba » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:10 pm

AmairahRyder wrote:Okay, I have to admit, I am a Christian. I don't believe in evolution. But that's beside the point. Every evolutionist paper and book I've read, every teacher I've listened to, has said that the world came to be with an explosion of gas. Where did that gas come from? That's the point many of us try to make. If the world came from some type of gas, who made the gas? This isn't exactly solid proof, but it's something to think about.:idea: :?:

You have either been taught wrong, or did not learn very well.
1. There was no explosion of gas. It was an expansion of space and time from a singularity. You might even see this as the "creation event" and attribute it to your God, if you wish.
2. Biological Evolution has nothing to do with Big Bang Cosmology.
3. Most Christians in the world have no problem accepting evolution. They see evolution as the process by which God creates species.
4. Evolution is as much a fact as gravity or electromagnetism. There really is no need for a "belief" in it.
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Postby MrMistery » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:13 pm

@AmairahRyder

Here's a question for you to ponder: your god is an extremely complex entity - after all he designed the entire universe right? If you don't believe in evolution by natural selection then the only way complexity can arise is by being created. Therefore, God cannot have evolved, it must have been created by some other entity that is even more complex. As you apply this reasoning ad infinitum you end up requiring the assumption of an infinitely complex entity, which is very hard to accept. The religious paradigm actually makes such kind of incredibly bold assumptions, even though they lack any kind of empirical evidence for any complexity at all. Even logically, an infinitely complex entity is much more of a handful to assume than a singularity.
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Re:

Postby AmairahRyder » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:06 pm

_at_ MrMistery

Here's a question for you to ponder: your god is an extremely complex entity - after all he designed the entire universe right? If you don't believe in evolution by natural selection then the only way complexity can arise is by being created. Therefore, God cannot have evolved, it must have been created by some other entity that is even more complex. As you apply this reasoning ad infinitum you end up requiring the assumption of an infinitely complex entity, which is very hard to accept.The religious paradigm actually makes such kind of incredibly bold assumptions, even though they lack any kind of empirical evidence for any complexity at all. Even logically, an infinitely complex entity is much more of a handful to assume than a singularity.[/quote]


Okay, I agreed with you up until this: "As you apply this reasoning ad infinitum you end up requiring the assumption of an infinitely complex entity, which is very hard to accept." What you said is totally true. And yes, that is what we Christians believe.
Biology, as far as I'm concerned, is still a controversial issue... :twisted:
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Postby kaylajean » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:21 pm

I am a creationists.I truly belive that God created the universe and everything in it.Everyone has there diffrent beliefs so it truly should'nt be an argument.But thats my opinion on the subject.
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Postby LeoPol » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:49 am

Modern Turbellaria, a direct descendant of Vendian Turbellaria, have eyes with lens, brain, etc.
http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=ru&tl=en

This means that all the complex features were invented once before Vend, and then only slightly structured adaptive morphology and skeleton. Hence, the ascent from the primary broth to the crown of creation was not. Peptide nucleic technology, as well as later - a social technology of multicellularity - is engineering works.
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... ge_id%3D82
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Re:

Postby AmairahRyder » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:41 pm

_at_ kaylajean
"I am a creationists.I truly belive that God created the universe and everything in it.Everyone has there diffrent beliefs so it truly should'nt be an argument.But thats my opinion on the subject."

Thank you, [i]somebody [i] undeerstands where I'm coming from. But the only reason we're having this arguement is because we both (meaning both sides) want to prove that they're right. There'd be no point in arguing if one had TRUE, CONCLUSIVE EVIVENCE of either God or evolution. This probably won't count, but so as to continue my arguement :twisted:, in order for Christianity to be real, Jesus must have raised from the dead. If that wasn't true, how come His body hasn't been found? :?: :idea:
Biology, as far as I'm concerned, is still a controversial issue... :twisted:
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Re: Any SOLID arguments against evolution?

Postby AmairahRyder » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:47 pm

robsabba wrote:
AmairahRyder wrote:Okay, I have to admit, I am a Christian. I don't believe in evolution. But that's beside the point. Every evolutionist paper and book I've read, every teacher I've listened to, has said that the world came to be with an explosion of gas. Where did that gas come from? That's the point many of us try to make. If the world came from some type of gas, who made the gas? This isn't exactly solid proof, but it's something to think about.:idea: :?:

You have either been taught wrong, or did not learn very well.
1. There was no explosion of gas. It was an expansion of space and time from a singularity. You might even see this as the "creation event" and attribute it to your God, if you wish.
2. Biological Evolution has nothing to do with Big Bang Cosmology.
3. Most Christians in the world have no problem accepting evolution. They see evolution as the process by which God creates species.
4. Evolution is as much a fact as gravity or electromagnetism. There really is no need for a "belief" in it.


Wait, hold on robsabba. I dont know where you got the idea that christians are okay with evolution. That completely destroys the purpose for Creation! and Evolution is not a fact. if it's so true, why are we still sitting here like idiots arguing over it?! :roll:
Biology, as far as I'm concerned, is still a controversial issue... :twisted:
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Postby carbonbasedlifeform » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:10 am

I can sum up creationists' main point in one sentence haha.

"God is too complex to understand, so we just believe that he exists because it's too hard to think outside the box."

Evolution stands stronger in other words, by a long shot.
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Re: Any SOLID arguments against evolution?

Postby robsabba » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:15 pm

AmairahRyder wrote:
Wait, hold on robsabba. I dont know where you got the idea that christians are okay with evolution. That completely destroys the purpose for Creation! and Evolution is not a fact. if it's so true, why are we still sitting here like idiots arguing over it?! :roll:

Most Christian denominations do not have an issue with evolution, including Catholicism. It is mainly in the United States where you have many more Independent Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians and an anti-intellectual culture that creationism prospers. Evolution describes how species were created, not by whom, or where the first life came from. The reason we are still arguing about this is because creationists cannot be persuaded by rational arguments. This is because they did not arrive at their entrenched dogma by rational means in the first place.
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Postby kaylajean » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:38 pm

i still completely agree with Amairahryder :D
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Re:

Postby robsabba » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:00 pm

kaylajean wrote:i still completely agree with Amairahryder :D

Well, of course you do. Don't let the fact that Amairahryder is wrong about almost everything he has posted sway you to the contrary! Like I said... you cannot use a rational argument to persuade someone who's position was arrived at in a non-rational manner.
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Re: Re:

Postby kaylajean » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:08 pm

robsabba wrote:
kaylajean wrote:i still completely agree with Amairahryder :D

Well, of course you do. Don't let the fact that Amairahryder is wrong about almost everything he has posted sway you to the contrary! Like I said... you cannot use a rational argument to persuade someone who's position was arrived at in a non-rational manner.


What proof is there that he is wrong? (Not trying to argue.... just trying to figure out the truth.)
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