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Homosexuality - mutation? Evolutionary reasons.

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Postby Darby » Thu May 27, 2010 1:48 am

Twin studies have indicated a strong genetic component, but suggest a multiple-gene system, so inheritance would not be easily trackable.

The pheromone hypothesis is interesting, but no one can quite agree that there even IS a human pheromone system (I think there is, but the effects are pretty subtle).
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Postby SelfishGene » Mon May 31, 2010 4:41 pm

Darwin420 wrote:"These people (gays) claim that they always felt like a girl even at an early age where they demonstrated feminine behaviours."


These are transsexuals, gays are just atrected by the same sex.
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Re: Homosexuality - mutation? Evolutionary reasons.

Postby ricky5564 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:07 am

As a homosexual myself I've yet to find a choice given to me, and growing up in a highly conservative community I was pressured daily, into changing. I've tried diligently since age 7, since I discovered the meaning and inherent consequence of that label. Around that age I thought I would eventually become attracted to women, as my fellow male peers-- but no. I only grew more attracted to members of the same sex. I condemned myself each day for it, claiming responsibility for my attractions. The years following were horrid. The self conflict was enough to drive anyone mad, almost drove me to suicide. To this day I still find hardship in my difference not only in my lack of acceptance, but my personal lack of biological compatibility-- I guess you could call it. Being in an ultra small, highly conservative community isn't exactly ideal for finding fellow homosexuals-- so a love life [or lack of] is another burden to bear. Being left out of major human/biological processes [heterosexual sex, child raising, basically contributing to the world's population with my own DNA-- some primal want I guess] feels so, well, un-human. I feel different on a whole new level. Caught up in this mess at just 15 here I stand stuck with these more than bothersome attractions, societies anxiety towards homosexuality is unhealthy to say the least. I don't mean to get so political but this whole "Save the children from the homos" idea is quite contradictory-- as, homosexual children exist.

I guess I just wanted to add another personal side to this discussion, my only research into the subject is personal experience.

Please excuse the poor writing =\


EDIT: Forgot to mention, I do not "feel like a girl trapped in a boys body", the only difference I've seen in myself from straight friends would be my higher pitched voice.
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Postby ChesneMD » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:30 pm

Given the recent necro of the topic, and I haven't touched it yet, I'd like to add on.

I think there are multiple reasons for homosexuality. It can include genetic, environmental, psychological, and social, though the last three tend to go hand in hand more often than not, in my opinion. I do not think I need to explain reasons for the aforementioned causes, they've been touched on in the topic.

With that in mind, I would like to state that I identify myself as heterosexual. But at what degree? Well, let's take a look at Kinsey's scale, of which I agree with.

0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Bisexual
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6 Exclusively homosexual

Kinsey himself stated he was about a 2 or 3, if I recall correctly. As for myself, I'd like to add onto it with the Klein, using past, present, and ideal factors.

If the past - I had participated in homosexual behaviour since the age of 4. I did not know a label to it, and I would engage with neighbourhood boys around my age (~2-3 years difference). It was not that I was exclusive to male than female, but the lack of females. If a female was around, and in one such case wanted to join (when I was 13, she was about 11), I was aroused more. That being said, and I can understand if most of you do not enjoy listening to this, I did not allow her to join in with the boys. I was attracted only to females, however, but only engaged with male. I would develop crushes on girls my age, but never did males (reiteration for clarification). However, my mannerisms and tendencies were feminine. Yet I was more like a tom boy, in that I regularly did "manly" things, such as snake, lizard, and crayfish catching in creeks, etc. Interestingly, I find it curious as to how many boys in the neighbourhoods engaged in the same activities, including my brother who is a little less than three years younger than I. Out of all the males my age at each stage, they joined in.

So, to conclude with that past, and bearing in mind it is from age 4-13, I would say I was probably 2. Why not a 3 - Bisexual? I wasn't inherently attracted toward males, or at least as much as I was females. And there were a few times females were involved which had a stronger pull than males.

From 13 to 16, I stumbled more with my sexuality. Things became less clear, and attractions became stronger. But that's obvious given the stage I was in. Between 13-16, there were not many availabilities for interaction, so they are non-existent. But slowly till 16, unknowingly, I was identifying myself as equally bisexual, or a 3. I found the company of both sexes to be pleasing and I was attracted toward both. And though it may be taboo to speak of, but porn correlated with the #.

From 16 to 19, I started to identify myself more as homosexual every year - 4 at 17, 5 at 18, 6 at 19. And given because it is relevant, and still taboo, porn correlated with this, as well. I also started coming out as homosexual, exclusively, without any attractions towards females. I was no longer attracted in any manner toward females, and in fact partially turned off or "sickened". Also at this time, given how I've always felt and been, all the things I've done, I actually started to consider a genital change, desiring to be female. I also looked, and still can, very feminine, always having those features. I would often be hit on by straight men who thought I was a woman.

Toward the latter part of 19, extremely close to 20, a quick change happened. I entered a stage of asexuality where I completely was void of sexuality. And it continued but dwindled until shortly later when I would've identified myself as a 0 on the Kinsey scale. My mannerisms and etc., however, and still till this day, are not what would be considered a full male gender (sans sexual orientation) in the US. But I regularly engaged in strictly heterosexual acts.

So from start to the finish of my listed history: 2-3-4-5-6-*-0 (*being asexual and not on the Kinsey scale).

There are things from my early twenties till now that I am keeping unlisted for personal reasons, but if I had to identify myself between 0-6 now, I would choose 0 still, or even * again. I am only attracted towards women now, but treat sexual satisfaction as just that. It doesn't matter how it is performed, but I am only attracted towards women. That being said, as referenced a moment ago, other male arousal or satisfaction can be arousing (I.E. single male porn), but only in the sense that it is stimulation, but not attraction. And no, if you want to say "I am just denying who I really am.", this is not the case. This would negate, however, the 0 I proposed, which is why I suggest * again, though some may state it belongs to a 1 or 2, which is not entirely inaccurate, as I am biased.

Now, you cannot say whether or not any of this has been genetic or caused by anything else. Interesting to note, however, is that my maternal grandmother has 3 girls and 1 boy. Of the 3 girls, 2 are lesbian, and 1 bisexual (obviously my mum). My uncle, the male, is 0-straight as far as anyone is aware of. The reason why to note it is that it simply wasn't one or two out of her children, but all female, and 3/4 are not the normal heterosexual. And given how I am, it makes it even more interesting to wonder if homosexuality is genetic.

One of my lesbian aunts had 3 children - 2 boys, 1 girl. Her oldest, a boy, could be presumed a virgin, though it is unknown. What is known is that he is single and quite potentially sexually inactive. He is considered 0-straight, however, as far as we know. Her second oldest, the other boy, was considered a 0-straight, as well, while he was alive. He also had 2 or 3 children. Finally, the youngest, the girl, is considered a 0-straight, is married, and has a child.

In all 3 of her children, they have not been seen or known to have any homosexual tendencies, and the males are gender-wise masculine males. The girl is, or at least was, a tom boy, but not entirely, as she was also girly.

You are probably wondering by now why she is a lesbian aunt, though it should be obvious - She lived a heterosexual life until eventually coming out ~15 years ago.

In the bisexual child, or my mum, she had three boys. You know about myself, the oldest. The middle boy is considered a 0-straight. The third child died when he was 3, so there is no variable for him known.

In the son of my maternal grandmother, all four of their boys are known to be 0-straight currently, 2 of which could be for certain and the other 2 are not old enough to determine.

It's only one family, so it hardly represents the entire picture, but I think all the examples are interesting to note. After all, it's quite the # of homosexuals or bisexuals in a family.

As stated earlier, it is impossible to determine if this is genetic or not. My maternal grandfather was not one of the best, and he was absent a lot. There are other things about him I will not discuss. This could be at least one cause for the tendencies in my mother's family, though it doesn't account for me. And it simply can't be limited to the grandfather, as there can be many other variables unknown to me. My father, for myself, was and is a horrid man, as well. I also learned about sex at the age or 3 or 4 (remembering at that point) from his porn collection and then imitating it, leading to the history I mentioned earlier.

I do not feel homosexuality is genetic in general. There obviously are some, that's... obvious. I feel that most are the cause of environmental, etc. causes. But the % of people who are homosexual is too high to be genetic, in my opinion. It is my personal feeling, and not evidenced by anything.
I am a biologist, biological anthropologist, physicist, theoretical physicist, astrophysicist, astrobiologist... I am a scientist. Dammit, Jim, stop pestering Dr. McCoy!
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