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Problems with Evolution !

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Postby alextemplet » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:21 pm

AFJ, a common anti-evolution argument is to claim that genetic mutations can only remove information, not add it; however, if this was true, HIV would've been virtually eliminated by now. In the early 90s, new drugs were developed which were capable of killing every strain of HIV then in existence. Yet within a very short time, the virus developed new strains which were immune to the drugs, and continues to be a world-wide problem today. The same is true with many bacteria; they are constantly developing new genes that give them resistance to antibiotics.
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Re: Problems with Evolution !

Postby smarthotty » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:38 am

Hey every1,

I'm new to this thingy but i'm pretty sure what enarees is talking about.
Autogenesis is a hypothetical organic phenomenon by which living organisms are created from nonliving matter. see? it's pretty simple : )
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Postby alextemplet » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:40 am

Wasn't that disproven in the 19th century?
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Re: Problems with Evolution !

Postby JorgeLobo » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:32 am

Wrong alex - no drugs were developed that "killed every strain of HIV." There was and is no cure for AIDs - the treatments merely inhibit. AIds develops when the virus is no longer inhibited, is resistant or tolerant - and that theoretically occurs in every infected person.

Autogenesis? As in spontaneous generation? We figured it happened - at least once. Also doesn't appear to be happening now.
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Postby alextemplet » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:52 am

JorgeLobo, I'm pretty sure you're mistaken. For further info, you can read Finding Darwin's God by Dr. Kenneth Miller. My copy's currently in storage so I had to write my post from memory, otherwise I'd give you more details. But that's where I got the info, so you can look into it if you wish.
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Re: Problems with Evolution !

Postby JorgeLobo » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:31 am

Sorry Alex - I am correct. AZT for example merely delayed AIDs, the condition develop inevitably as the virus became resistant/tolerant. I don't see a popular book taking precedence to scientific reference.

It's real simple - if treatment "killed all known AIDs viruses" - treatment would have cured and it is well known that none did.
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Postby JorgeLobo » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:16 am

just an example - note last sentence of abstract

Zidovudine (AZT) reduces virus titer, retards immune dysfunction, and prolongs survival in the LP-BM5 murine induced immunodeficiency model
Article Abstract:

Very often, the efficient study of a disease involves the development of an animal model of that disease. In the case of AIDS, there are several animal models, but no single model is completely satisfactory. One model is the LP-BM5 mouse. Primary advantages of this model are its reproducibility in the laboratory, its cost-effectiveness, and the similarity of many of the observed defects to human AIDS. The major disadvantage is that the model is created using a combination of viruses, none of which is a lentivirus like HIV. The model employs murine leukemia virus, a variant of murine leukemia virus which causes focus formation in cultured mink cells, and a defective virus, which is actually responsible for the immune suppression. These viruses, which are genetically simpler than HIV and other lentiviruses, nevertheless create an immune deficiency syndrome in the infected mice which may be used to study virus-induced immunodeficiency. Investigators used this mouse model for the study of zidovudine, and have found that treatment with this drug increases survival of the mice. In addition, it was found that zidovudine reduced the immune dysfunction associated with disease progression. And, as is the case with human AIDS, zidovudine was not able to eradicate the viruses from the animal's system. However, it is not yet known whether this was due to the development of drug-resistant viruses, as occurs with the human immunodeficiency virus. (Consumer Summary produced by Reliance Medical Information, Inc.)

author: Merigan, Thomas C., Basham, Teresa, Rios, C. David, Holdener, Teresa
Publisher: University of Chicago Press
Publication Name: Journal of Infectious Diseases
Subject: Health
ISSN: 0022-1899
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Postby alextemplet » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:10 pm

JorgeLobo wrote:AZT for example merely delayed AIDs, the condition develop inevitably as the virus became resistant/tolerant.


That was my point, that the virus developed immunity.
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Re: Problems with Evolution !

Postby JorgeLobo » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Pedantic I know - bit "immunity" is not the term used for this phenomenon.
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Postby alextemplet » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:55 am

Yeah, I see your point. "Resistant" would be a better word.
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