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Bacteriophages and Acne?

About microscopic forms of life, including Bacteria, Archea, protozoans, algae and fungi. Topics relating to viruses, viroids and prions also belong here.

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Bacteriophages and Acne?

Postby Nate3000 » Mon May 26, 2008 11:52 am

While I can find a wealth of information on the theory of bacteriophages, I can't seem to find anything useful on their actual use(though I hear they're used with frequency in Georgia[the country]). Ever since I've known what they are, I've thought that bacteriophages would be perfect to treat acne. When I saw this article, I was slightly hopeful that I might find a clinical trial(at clinicaltrials.gov), but I found exactly bupkis.

So this leads me to my questions: Would it be a bad idea to culture the bacteriophage PA6? Is there somewhere I could purchase some of it?
If it's not a Bad Idea™, can you guys help me with the basics of culturing(I a vague idea of what to to)?
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Postby canalon » Mon May 26, 2008 1:45 pm

It might seem a good idea, but as far as i know the problems are:

-stability is not the greatest quality of bacteriophage cultures. In things like phage typing (strain discrimination of bacteria by sensitivity to a panel of phages), the hard part is to get consistent batches of phages.

-Sensitivity of bacteria to phages is not 100% so there might be some problems here. And unlike antibiotic here, there is no dose response.

-Phages are not really stable, so they are not as easy to use as anitibiotics that can be used in creams or pills.

As for protocol to grow phages, there are tons on the net, but the basics is you start a culture of your favorite target bacteria, and when it is starting to grow well, you mix it with phages and wait. In the end you hopefully have much less bacteria, but tons more of phages.
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Re:

Postby Nate3000 » Mon May 26, 2008 7:54 pm

canalon wrote:As for protocol to grow phages, there are tons on the net, but the basics is you start a culture of your favorite target bacteria, and when it is starting to grow well, you mix it with phages and wait. In the end you hopefully have much less bacteria, but tons more of phages.


Thanks!

Do you think you could direct me to protocols for culturing P. acnes? Or is there a place I could buy an already established culture? I hear P. acnes is hard to grow...
EDIT: Where does one get phages in the first place? Do you just try stuff from the environment(or from your face, because thats where P. acnes lives) and hope for the best?
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Postby Nate3000 » Tue May 27, 2008 5:46 am

I read this article, and found something concerning:
When phages burst out of the victim's cell, they leave behind debris that can contaminate the solution. This debris can prove fatal to humans, a problem that the purification technologies of the early days were unable to solve.


Those are endotoxins, right? And can you get rid of them with a centrifuge? (Or do you even need to? I know the body can handle them when bacteriophages work in the body.)
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Postby canalon » Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 pm

Can be bought at ATCC, although I doubt they would sell to anyone else than an institutional account, like any other company selling bacterial strains. The medium is simple and listed on their website:
http://www.atcc.org/Attachments/2333.pdf

As for fragments, it probably depends how they are used (topical vs ingestion) but I suspecta density gradient centrifugation might help separate the different fragments. But other methods might beb better/safer/more complete.
As for the detection of phage, I suspect you first start to test environmental samples on plates containing the targeted species and then make some plaque purification.
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Postby biohazard » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:49 pm

I think you cannot remove endotoxins solely by centrifugation, at least in any practical way. However, some substances allow you to precipitate them and the remove by centrifugation. Even this doesn't guarantee 100% endotoxin-free product - something that even industrial high-purity systems cannot usually reach.

This being said, I've understood that low levels of endotoxins are problematic only if you're planning to inject your phages intravenously or maybe subcutaneously (which would just get them destroyed by the immune system anyway).

If you administrate the phages orally they likely get inactivated as well, but endotoxins shouldn't be a problem.

So, to me, some sort of cream or lotion sounds like the only practical way of administrating the phages. Endotoxins shouldn't be too big a problem this way, but the phage stability probably would, as well as their ability to reach the bacteria, not just the skin.

On a side note, that article about the phages was quite funny, the author managed to make the whole phage/bacteria thing like a horror story fused with science fiction ;)
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Re:

Postby Nate3000 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:46 pm

biohazard wrote:I think you cannot remove endotoxins solely by centrifugation, at least in any practical way. However, some substances allow you to precipitate them and the remove by centrifugation. Even this doesn't guarantee 100% endotoxin-free product - something that even industrial high-purity systems cannot usually reach.

This being said, I've understood that low levels of endotoxins are problematic only if you're planning to inject your phages intravenously or maybe subcutaneously (which would just get them destroyed by the immune system anyway).

If you administrate the phages orally they likely get inactivated as well, but endotoxins shouldn't be a problem.

So, to me, some sort of cream or lotion sounds like the only practical way of administrating the phages. Endotoxins shouldn't be too big a problem this way, but the phage stability probably would, as well as their ability to reach the bacteria, not just the skin.

On a side note, that article about the phages was quite funny, the author managed to make the whole phage/bacteria thing like a horror story fused with science fiction ;)


Thanks. I was also wondering about any other impurities one would need to consider, though it sounds like endotoxins are not too much of a problem.

Lysis reminds me of the movie Alien. :shock:
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Re: Bacteriophages and Acne?

Postby victory798 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:20 pm

I just saw this forum about Bacteriophage therapy... all posts are pretty old,but I just wanna tell you something important... First of all, users "biohazard" and "canalon" don't know **** about Bacteriophages at all... so if you don't know - just keep your f..cking mouth shut!!!
I've been in many countries and I can see the difference in medical field very clear!!!
They make all kinds of Bacteriophages to treat all kinds of health problems! They've been using Bacteriophages since 1940s... they used Bacteriophages in 2d World War!!! Many countries actually do care about progress in medical field and people!!! They sell all kind of Bacteriophages in regular drug stores! Bacteriophages are very unique and fantastic medicine!
If you think U.S the best country in the world??? may be, but not in medical field... FOR SURE!!!
Pharmacies make billions profits by selling antibiotics(chemicals) to people,but antibiotics cause new diseases and all kinds of side effects... antibiotics kill you slowly inside!!! American doctors are business doctors - they don't give a **** about people,all they need from you is MONEY!!!!
Bacteriophages are the best alternative to antibiotics!!! Bacteriophages kill all kind of bad bacteria inside of human body & has no side effects... Wake up people! all world uses Bacteriophages,herbs,
herbal balsams and many other non traditional methods to treat people... Actually I'm in SHOCK
to see how american government don't care to invent any new medicine or technologies to make a huge progress in medical field. It's 2012 ALREADY!!!! and you can see there's not much progress in
the country.... special thanks to computer and cell phone technology... other than that, there's
NO progress!!! Some idiots may tell you that Bacteriophages are not so effective or some other
crazy **** - it's because they just want to cover their shitty useless lazy asses... innovations, progress,development takes big money & huge will to create progress and help people... Now days
careless doctors and pharmacies are too comfortable sitting on their fat crappy asses and making
billions dollars on selling those nasty antibiotics & other chemicals to very naive people...
Government don't even let anyone to bring Bacteriophage from Europe... they don't want people
to find out about new technology, new medicine which works very effective in many cases... regress!!!!
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Postby victory798 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:42 pm

http://www.phagetherapycenter.com
Bacteriophage Therapy for Patients Across the Globe!!!

An Effective Treatment for Many Difficult Bacterial Infections
Phage Therapy Center specializes in three particular situations where bacteriophage therapy tends to be superior to standard and advanced treatments (including antibiotics) in the US and Western Europe:

Acute and Chronic Infections
Acne
Bladder Infections
Bronchiactasis
Bronchitis
Burns
Colitis
Conjunctivitis
Cystic Fibrosis (co-infections)
Dysbiosis / Pathogenic Intestinal Flora
Ear Infections (Otitis Media)
Eye Infections
Gingivitis
Intestinal Infections
Laryngitis
Lung Infections
Mastitis
Myositis
Nose / Throat Infections
Prostatitis and Associated Sexual Problems
Infected Prosthesis
Chronic Sinusitis (Rhinosinusitis)
Skin Boils / Abscess / Lesions
Tracheitis
Urinary Tract Infections (UTI) and Cystitis
Vaginitis
Infections Where Circulation is Poor
Poor circulation makes it difficult to deliver the right concentration of antibiotics to the infected area. Such conditions include, but are not limited to, the following:

Bed Sores
Chronic / Non-healing / Infected Wounds
Diabetic Foot
Osteomyelitis
Tropic Ulcers
Infections with Bacteria Resistant to Standard or Advanced Antibiotics
Some but not all of these infections involve situations with poor circulation (such as those mentioned above), where insufficient antibiotic doses foster the growth of resistant bacteria. There are other cases, however, where poor circulation is not an important factor. Such cases can include:

Staphylococcus spp. (more than one species) including Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) and Community Associated Staphylococcus aureus (CA-MRSA).
Streptococcus spp.
Enterococcus spp.
E. coli
Proteus spp.
Klebsiella pneumoniae
Pseudomonas aeruginosa
Several Other Bacterial Strains that are Emerging as Significant Challenges Even to the Most Advanced Antibiotics
Infections Complicated with Candida and Other Yeast / Fungi
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Re: Bacteriophages and Acne?

Postby JorgeLobo » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:59 pm

Propionibacteria are Gram postive - so no classic endotoxin (LPS) tho' debris could still be a concern. But assuming topical application, this may be less of a worry.
Bacteriophage therapy also suffers from host rimmune response to the phage itself, and those who have worked with bacteriophages will recall the typical appearance of colonies of resistant bacteria appear in plaques. No doubt phage therapy has some indications but it's not a miracle therapy.

Victory - come on - that list is silly. Sure like to see clinical data for ALL those indications, esp. the reference to
"Infections Complicated with Candida and Other Yeast / Fungi." Bad enough they don't know that yeatsts are fungi but implying bacteriophages are effective against fungi impeaches the whole site.
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