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Bible vs Darwin

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Bible vs Darwin

Postby volcob » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:06 am

in one of a seminar I attended

a pastor talked about his own version of darwin's evolution

he said that evolution occured when a fish jumped into the soil, adopted and evolved into an amphibian(frog).

The frog leaped into the tree and became a monkey.

The monkey went down to become a human.

Thus it was concluded that Darwinian evolution is not true.

my question is does Darwin's real concept of evolution contradicts or oposes that of the bible's concept or his concept simply complements that of the Bible's

this is none of a religious talk however :wink:
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Postby mith » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:14 am

why not ask if the hawaiian creation myth of everyone being on the back of a turtle corresponds to plate tectonics?
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Postby February Beetle » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:52 pm

I think a lot of the things in the Bible are taken as not being literal. I have not studied the Bible heavily, so I can't give a better answer.

It has always confused me how people can believe some things in the Bible as literal, and some as not.

One of my favorite things to talk about is my intro to Bio class at college, when talking about evolution and religion explaining that religion doesn't belong in science, but just because something isn't science doesn't mean it isn't true.
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Postby mith » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:32 am

Religion and Science represent different types of knowledge. It's apples and oranges.
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Postby Jones » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:33 pm

Yeah, but they're both fruit... Hehe... ;) I was going to add something better, but I refuse to be serious today.
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Postby alextemplet » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:14 pm

This is topic I've studied very heavily and I've never found a reason why evolutionary theory and the Bible should be opposed to each other.
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Re: Bible vs Darwin

Postby français » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:56 am

volcob wrote:my question is does Darwin's real concept of evolution contradicts or oposes that of the bible's concept or his concept simply complements that of the Bible's

Well, it depends. If you think that Adam and Eve are the first humans, and that we are all descendent's of Adam and Eve, then yes, this does contradict modern science. (as does the 6 day creation theory.)

If however, you hold some metaphorical meaning behind it, then perhaps you might be able to compromise your faith with evolution.

I was not able to compromise both. I just could never see why god would say one thing in the Bible, yet mean another. It never made sense to me. I never understood how for 1900 years priests could say "the earth is 6,000 years old, and we are from adam and eve"and now all of a sudden change it.

Of course, some take the torah metaphorically. Maimonides, the BIGGEST and most well known scholar of Judaism made it clear that the torah should conform to modern science. Ibn ezra affirmed that belief, as did many other Jews throughout history. Pope Benedict said that evolution and theism are two complementing aspects. Of course, I still disagree with them all(because why would the Bible say one thing but mean another) but oviously many other prominent scholars who have devoted their lives to the Torah or Bible have had no problem accepting things metaphorically.
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Postby sob » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:31 am

The Bible is actually not in its pure form. It has been edited by many people since it was revealed. So, we can not blame God.
In the Bible many scientific errors are written. But still, if you believe in Bible you have to accept that science is wrong and if you believe in science you have to accept that Bible is wrong (not God).
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Postby mith » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:50 pm

Right, because the bible teaches us to live our lives unscientifically and and science teaches us to live godlessly.

Apparently, you don't know know much about either field.

Science may explain a how, but it definitely does not explain a why. We have evolved to eat meat, but does that mean we "ought" to eat meat? If you think so, then you're committing a logical fallacy.

Religon is not interested in being scientific; why would you debase the supernatural into naturalist terms? Why should any religious text contain accurate scientific descriptions to "prove" its "holiness." It doesn't. I find it terribly demeaning when people try to impose their own personal beliefs on what a religious text should or should not be and then create a false dichotomy out of their own ignorance.
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Postby alextemplet » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:05 pm

mith wrote:Religon is not interested in being scientific; why would you debase the supernatural into naturalist terms? Why should any religious text contain accurate scientific descriptions to "prove" its "holiness." It doesn't. I find it terribly demeaning when people try to impose their own personal beliefs on what a religious text should or should not be and then create a false dichotomy out of their own ignorance.


Mith, this is probably the wisest paragraph I have ever heard in this forum. You're going in the Member Quotes Thread for this one.
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Postby alextemplet » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:11 pm

sob wrote:The Bible is actually not in its pure form. It has been edited by many people since it was revealed. So, we can not blame God.
In the Bible many scientific errors are written. But still, if you believe in Bible you have to accept that science is wrong and if you believe in science you have to accept that Bible is wrong (not God).


As mith said, I would suggest you do a little background research into this subject. The original texts of the Bible still exist and most modern translations strive to be as close to the original as possible. The Bible is in no way obligated to contain accurate scientific data as it is a religious text first and a historical record second, but never a scientific text book. There is no reason at all why a believer cannot simultaneously accept both science and the Bible.
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Postby genovese » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:09 am

mith wrote "Religon is not interested in being scientific; why would you debase the supernatural into naturalist terms? Why should any religious text contain accurate scientific descriptions to "prove" its "holiness." It doesn't. I find it terribly demeaning when people try to impose their own personal beliefs on what a religious text should or should not be and then create a false dichotomy out of their own ignorance.
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To-day that all sounds very logical and plausible but you should also take into account
that for many years the church did represent the “science” that was then available. Until the age of enlightenment clerics were in the main the only educated people and the early parts of the bible does its best to describe natural “scientific” processes. Proof of this lies in the resistance that the church has put up against scientific discoveries that it did not approve.

You cannot blame people for confusing “the natural with the supernatural” for the church has been doing just that for many years. Had the church just stuck to morals then perhaps there would have been less confusion?
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