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Postby alextemplet » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:53 am

China can hardly be described as non-interventionist, given that almost their entire history is based on expansion and conquest in one form or another (military or economic).
Generally speaking, the more people talk about "being saved," the further away they actually are from true salvation.

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Postby David George » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:47 pm

yes quite true....
some of the most cunning methods are used by Chinese.May be thats why i am attracted to the Chinese[in China].
But they seem to be Unique in everything which i think could be modified.While Indians rarely assimilate into the foreign cultures,chinese are more "miscible".
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Postby alextemplet » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:18 pm

The Chinese have done a good job of assimilating some foreign ideas, although much of the country remains very undeveloped. They have managed to carve a unique cultural identity all their own, which is something to be applauded. That concept of unique culture is rapidly fading, for example, in much of Europe.
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Re:

Postby David George » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:39 pm

alextemplet wrote:The Chinese have done a good job of assimilating some foreign ideas, although much of the country remains very undeveloped. They have managed to carve a unique cultural identity all their own, which is something to be applauded. That concept of unique culture is rapidly fading, for example, in much of Europe.


Yes thats what i said rural areas need to be developed.By meaning "unique culture" what exactly do you mean.As far as i know India is the one major country that has followed its culture with few modifications.The hymns chanted in the hindu temples are pretty much the same as it was thousands of years ago.But i think this is a major setback to the nation.Although we can be proud of it,i don't think its great.
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Postby alextemplet » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:14 pm

By that standard the Vatican is just as much of a unique culture as India, for chanting hymns in Latin. Anyway I mean unique culture as the unique practices that define a particular group of people or the place they live in. China certainly has foreign influences, but it's a very different place and culture from the west. How different it is from neighboring nations I'm not sure, but I do know for most of history, China was the dominant cultural influence in east Asia, sort of like Greece and Rome in Europe.
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Postby David George » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:26 am

alextemplet wrote:By that standard the Vatican is just as much of a unique culture as India, for chanting hymns in Latin. Anyway I mean unique culture as the unique practices that define a particular group of people or the place they live in. China certainly has foreign influences, but it's a very different place and culture from the west. How different it is from neighboring nations I'm not sure, but I do know for most of history, China was the dominant cultural influence in east Asia, sort of like Greece and Rome in Europe.


The Vatican is such a small place.But India is a huge country....
Yes China was dominant,but think it was smaller in size than it is today.The Mongols used to raid them often.Even came down to India and burned down some great cities.India has had Muslim,Hindu,Buddhist rulers around its history.The final touch given by the Christians---English.Even India would have been divided into 25+ countries if the British had never come.My state certainly would have remained independent if the british had not come,since we had our own rulers and culture.But its better to be a part of the Indian Union.
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Postby charles brough » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:36 pm

February Beetle wrote:. . . just because something isn't science doesn't mean it isn't true.


That is an interesting statement! It means that you have some knowledge of what the word "true" actually means. Most people do not. In fact, epistemologists have never been able to quite figure out what people mean when they say something is "true." To me, the word means" "this is what I want you to believe." Also, I consider the word to be an "old-religion word," like "sin," "glory," 'holy," etc. In science, we deal with something more real, such as "theory," such as "the theory of evolution." We keep making it more accurate. It is already zillions of times more accurate than Creationism.

Also, I wonder just what something is if it is not consistent with science? Can it still be the absolute, total, perfect thing, "Truth"? I don't thing so . . .

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Postby alextemplet » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:48 pm

Charles, to say that something is "true" is to say that is factual, real, etc. To say that something lies outside the bounds of science simply means it involves a field of human knowledge that is not covered by the natural sciences. This would include most of the humanities, for example. To say that science holds all the answers is among the most foolish statements a person can make, and any responsible scientist should respect that there are limits to natural philosophy.
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Postby charles brough » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:23 pm

alextemplet wrote:Charles, to say that something is "true" is to say that is factual, real, etc. To say that something lies outside the bounds of science simply means it involves a field of human knowledge that is not covered by the natural sciences. This would include most of the humanities, for example. To say that science holds all the answers is among the most foolish statements a person can


You are merely using the world "factual" as a substitute for "true." Thus, the first sentence says nothing.

There is no subject that is "outside of science." Every subject is able to be subjected to the scientific method. There are perhaps more than twenty sciences under the "humanities" umbrella term that you used. What social or humanaties subject are you specifically are you referring to?

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Postby alextemplet » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:58 am

Music, philosophy, politics, just to name a few. Each of these fields has a certain overlap with science, to be sure, but they operate under clearly different rules than natural sciences such as biology, chemistry, astronomy, etc.
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Re:

Postby charles brough » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:59 pm

alextemplet wrote:Music, philosophy, politics, just to name a few. Each of these fields has a certain overlap with science, to be sure, but they operate under clearly different rules than natural sciences such as biology, chemistry, astronomy, etc.


I don't see how "truth" or "false" applies to the arts. Politics is considered a social science. Philosophy, well, I don't know what you would call it! Anyway I get your drift. I have heard many speeches filled with naive platitudes which are commonly thought of as "spiritual truths." Books are in print filled with "wisdom." And that I am now in front of my computer can all be considered, for practical purposes, as "truths," but not in the abstract, total, religious sense when applied to the world around us and us in general, things that are more important to us collectively instead of just to the individual. :D

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Postby alextemplet » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:11 pm

The distinguishing feature of the natural sciences, in my opinion, is the scientific method. Many academic disciplines such as humanities and social sciences do not use this method of experimentation, often for very good reasons. Thus they can be considered "outside the boundaries of science."
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