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ex-situ conservation

Discussion of the distribution and abundance of living organisms and how these properties are affected by interactions between the organisms and their environment

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ex-situ conservation

Postby js_daquilanea » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:36 pm

helo guys!m just wondering.... is domestic dog breeding considered an ex situ approach to conservation since dog breeding maintains a certain standard for a specific dog breed?or is it in-situ since domestic dogs are naturally urban dwelling unlike their wolf cousins?
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Postby MrMistery » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:30 pm

well is it conservation at all? it's not like dogs are endangered..
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Postby js_daquilanea » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:42 pm

well, yes they are not endangered on the species level but on the sub species level or in the sub-sub-sub species level (if there is any) there is a possibility that some dog breeds may have endngerments. some genes or traits may be lost or modified if they are not bred well isnt it?for instance, the puffin dog of i think norway, they are almost extinct. besides, i think conservation approaches should not wait for endangerment of a species or subspecies for it to function.
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Postby MrMistery » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:34 am

i'm not saying we should wait. I'm just saying i don't know if you can refer to it as conservation.
I'm not saying i am right and you are wrong, this isn't my field.
PS: i have never heard of a sub-sub-species. Might exist, but i think i would at least have heard of it.
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Postby js_daquilanea » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:29 am

i understand your points and i know what you mean, by common practices and knowledge, it is notreally a subject for conservation but i am just saying my views not only to you but to everybody who might read it. i thank you very much for paying attention to my concerns.
If energy cannot be created nor destroyed then HE could only be the creator and the destroyer, The alpha and omega, the brahma and shiva. If HE neither create nor destroy then HE preserves,The Vishnu.
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Postby blcr11 » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:40 am

Frankly, I don’t think much of the so-called standards of dog breeders. (Nothing personal if you happen to be one.) Historically, the breeding of dogs was done for human convenience or entertainment; I don’t think the dogs have benefited much from the practice, and we’re very far away from the wolfish ancestors of today’s dogs. Cross-breeding I maybe don’t have so much trouble with, but the severe in-breeding of dogs has resulted in animals that tend to develop serious health problems; natty looking, perhaps, and great for shows, but not very good for the dog. Whatever happened to the praise of hybrid vigor? And the AKA has some very “interesting” ideas about genetics—or at least they used to, if they haven’t changed their policies. One of the things dear to the heart of dog breeders is the pure-bred certification of litters. The AKA requires proof that a pure-bred bitch was sired by another pure-bred (of the same breed, I guess, though I’m not sure about the rules for cross-breeding between different pure-breds). If—God forbid—a pure-bred bitch was accidently bred to a non-pure-bred, then something like the next 3-4 litters of that bitch cannot be certifed due to the “contamination” of the breed, even though the next litters are sired by the proper pure-bred animals. Now, where this contamination is supposed to come from is beyond me. The arrogance of it just disgusts me. Sorry, but give me a mutt anytime.
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Postby js_daquilanea » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:14 am

before,those were my sentiments too. but when i learned that humans are not the ones who pushed prehistoric dogs to be domesticated, i had a change of heart. We may not really know what the dogs are up to...sounds fiction?here's another one...there is an old american indian legend that states, "when God separated man to the other side of a deep and wide cliff from other animals, the dog jumped over the cliff and from then on it became man's best friend" in prehistoric reality men and wolves are bitter enemies. they compete for prey and territory. wolves follow men everywhere. later, men evolved and learned to civilize so as the wolves since they had overlaapping niches. a group of wolves realized that there are more food from the left overs of the men along the trail. instead of hunting and competing with man who is evolving to be a better hunter than them, these wolves tried to get along with men after realizing that they cant compete. And so, they learned to exploit man's weakness. man's compassion for cute and cuddly little pups. from then, men enjoyed cuddling anf caring for them. men gave them food and shelter, men groom them, and sometimes men worship them. we cant really tell...who is the master or the servant?but for me....neither should be one,being best friends should not be like that.
If energy cannot be created nor destroyed then HE could only be the creator and the destroyer, The alpha and omega, the brahma and shiva. If HE neither create nor destroy then HE preserves,The Vishnu.
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Postby js_daquilanea » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:45 am

about in-breeding, dog breeders here discourage that too. we all know that it is not good when it is tolerated for generations or for many litters to come. but being a pure breed does not mean that dogs should come from same lineage or pedigree.dog breeds are like human races. a pure breed does not have to come from an incestuos relationship. dog breeders like wolves in the wild chooses the best genes that will form the litters.
If energy cannot be created nor destroyed then HE could only be the creator and the destroyer, The alpha and omega, the brahma and shiva. If HE neither create nor destroy then HE preserves,The Vishnu.
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Postby MrMistery » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:26 am

yes. but that still does not solve all the problems. in selecting artificially for certain traits dog breeders have accidentally created various breeds with great health problems. for example, dalmatians are predisposed to skin cancer if i remember correctly
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Postby kotoreru » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:08 pm

Great Danes have weak hearts. Those wrinkly dogs have terrible skin problems. Sausage dogs look ridiculous. Says it all, really.
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Postby js_daquilanea » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:40 am

yes, but they live longer than what they wer before, in fact their ancestors are already extinct. at least these dogs had the chance to live and be loved.thats also the resaon why they have to be domesticated and if not, the would not have been extinct in the wild.
If energy cannot be created nor destroyed then HE could only be the creator and the destroyer, The alpha and omega, the brahma and shiva. If HE neither create nor destroy then HE preserves,The Vishnu.
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Postby js_daquilanea » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:57 am

i mean...they would been extinct
If energy cannot be created nor destroyed then HE could only be the creator and the destroyer, The alpha and omega, the brahma and shiva. If HE neither create nor destroy then HE preserves,The Vishnu.
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