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Mitochondria and Intelligent Design

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Postby genovese » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:13 am

Alex wrote "It would also even further reinforce the point that mitochondria are incapable of surviving outside the cell. This in my opinion would seal the case that they are organelles and not organisms. "

It doesn't matter what you call them NOW. It doesn't even matter if they were to be just "fossils" dead within our cells. It is the theory that at some point way back in time they fused and became part of our system. Back then, they were a separate animal from our eukaryotic ancestors.

It is this theory that threw a theological problem for me. I do realize and accept that it doesn't cause a problem for you.

All other bacteria in our guts etc. did not change or cause us to evolve in a different way. They come and go and we survive or become ill - that is all that can be said for those other "riders" on our bodies. Viruses may be different, because they may well have played a part in our evolution and we will have to wait for this answer when all that dark matter in our genome has been clarified.
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Postby alextemplet » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:18 pm

Then it appears we're more or less in agreement; it's a case of two organisms merging into one. I'm not going to bother to get into the theological debate again.
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Postby AstusAleator » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:37 pm

Thank you :)
What did the parasitic Candiru fish say when it finally found a host? - - "Urethra!!"
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Postby tebuffer » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:23 pm

Mitochondria is acquired, like chloroplasts and plastids
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Postby mcar » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:22 pm

Think about it. This structure, so minute as it is... was designed perfectly as the way it should be.

Imagine not eating your favourite pies--now, doesn't it deserve a million of applause?
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Postby canalon » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:47 pm

mcar wrote:Think about it. This structure, so minute as it is... was designed perfectly as the way it should be.

Imagine not eating your favourite pies--now, doesn't it deserve a million of applause?


No. To both sentence. First the second one, why would self deprivation be worth any applause? Moderation is the key.

And No mitochondria were not designed, they evolved from endosymbiotica bacteria and there are plenty of proofs of that in their genetic material.
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Postby mcar » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:55 am

canalon wrote:
No. To both sentence. First the second one, why would self deprivation be worth any applause? Moderation is the key.

And No mitochondria were not designed, they evolved from endosymbiotica bacteria and there are plenty of proofs of that in their genetic material.


Im NO to self-deprivation too! What I mean here is that insufficient supply of nutrients for energy--nothing would be synthesized for the benefit of an organism. cellular respiration takes place in this minute organelle--and so deserves applause.

yes, its the endosymbiotic theory.
and I believe that evolution could create designs for the benefit of the organism or species.
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Postby canalon » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:24 pm

mcar wrote:yes, its the endosymbiotic theory.
and I believe that evolution could create designs for the benefit of the organism or species.


WEll the word design, when associated with evolution should be handled carefully. There is no design per se with evolution, because the word implies will and foresight. Evolution have non of those. Nevertheless, I agree with you that mitochondrion (and many other organelles show an exquisite adaptation to their current functions :D
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Postby genovese » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:17 pm

I hinted that if the mitochondrial DNA had all been transferred to the nucleus, we might have had difficulty in proposing the endosymbiosis theory. Is there any possibility that the other organelles were also once a different species?
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Postby canalon » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:03 pm

genovese wrote:I hinted that if the mitochondrial DNA had all been transferred to the nucleus, we might have had difficulty in proposing the endosymbiosis theory. Is there any possibility that the other organelles were also once a different species?


Most of the plasts in plant cells are. Is there any other. Not that I know, but that does not mean much. And as you pointed out if others transferred all DNA to the nucleus, there would be no proof that they once were independent.
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Postby mcar » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:41 pm

But how indeed is this tiny cell and its components break our mind thinking? revolutionary.
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