Login

Join for Free!
119218 members


Reconciling Faith with Evolution

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

Moderator: BioTeam

Reconciling Faith with Evolution

Postby genovese » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:10 am

"Killing,stealing,cheating,raping". Natural Selection has given us these traits so as to survive and procreate. Communal living means having to control these traits. Laws and Rules of behavior attempt to do just that.
Laws are not permanent however and only obey national boundaries. "Moral codes" or "God-given laws" are more substantial and not so easy to disobey.

Could Natural Selection have favored those societies with supernatural beliefs over those with no beliefs? Are Moral Codes better than simple Laws
for the survival of primitive societies?

If so, then belief in the supernatural could well be in our genome.
User avatar
genovese
Coral
Coral
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:56 pm

Postby kotoreru » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:17 pm

Are you certain about your first statement? Evolutionarily Stable Strategy Theory suggests otherwise: that only a small proportion of any given population can behave in this way or the population crumbles i.e. becomes less fit.

You can't propagate a species using just these traits. Look at certain fish, with the alpha male and the satellite males. A population of just satellite males would quickly cease to continue, or selection would favour the development of an alpha male.

Lots of law is based on these ideas ;)
"What are humans if they don't learn at University? Animals, yes."

^^One of my ex-girlfriends said that. I stress the ex part.
User avatar
kotoreru
Coral
Coral
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:25 pm
Location: London

Postby genovese » Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:01 pm

Are you saying that only a few humans can "Kill,steal,rape"? I would disagree and say that we all have this capability and that many other animals have it as well. It is so common that I cannot imagine that these traits have not been selected for some benefit by Natural selection.

Of course society would collapse if we all allowed full expression of this potential, that is why I am suggesting that laws and moral codes have to be put in place. javascript:emoticon(':D')

Perhaps satellite fish have some other benefit - (I am not into fish)
User avatar
genovese
Coral
Coral
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:56 pm


Re: Reconciling Faith with Evolution

Postby AstusAleator » Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:36 pm

Oh man just wait until Charles sees this...

Anyhow, regarding this question:
genovese wrote:Could Natural Selection have favored those societies with supernatural beliefs over those with no beliefs? Are Moral Codes better than simple Laws
for the survival of primitive societies?


Can you think of an example of any society that hasn't had some sort of religion? I can think of a few more modern ones that have attempted to eradicate religion... unsuccessfully, but none that naturally had no religion. If you know of any, please let me know.


As for the rest: I think it's reasonable to hypothesize that the capacity for culture and religion arise from our genetics. However, culture and religion are such complex issues... Really you'd need a team of phD Anthropologists and Ecologists to get some conclusive answers, and even then... I dunno, it's just such a huge topic.
What did the parasitic Candiru fish say when it finally found a host? - - "Urethra!!"
User avatar
AstusAleator
King Cobra
King Cobra
 
Posts: 1039
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:51 pm
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: Reconciling Faith with Evolution

Postby alextemplet » Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:56 pm

AstusAleator wrote:As for the rest: I think it's reasonable to hypothesize that the capacity for culture and religion arise from our genetics. However, culture and religion are such complex issues... Really you'd need a team of phD Anthropologists and Ecologists to get some conclusive answers, and even then... I dunno, it's just such a huge topic.


I agree; religious belief certainly does seem to give an evolutionary advantage. And you might want to add quite a few theologians (preferably from several different religions) to your team of anthropologists and ecologists.
Generally speaking, the more people talk about "being saved," the further away they actually are from true salvation.

~Alex
#2 Total Post Count
User avatar
alextemplet
King Cobra
King Cobra
 
Posts: 5599
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:50 pm
Location: South Louisiana (aka Cajun Country)

Postby kotoreru » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:16 pm

The way genovese managed to mangle my post all hinged on the word 'can'. English is such a delightful language.
"What are humans if they don't learn at University? Animals, yes."

^^One of my ex-girlfriends said that. I stress the ex part.
User avatar
kotoreru
Coral
Coral
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:25 pm
Location: London

Postby alextemplet » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:22 pm

kotoreru wrote:The way genovese managed to mangle my post all hinged on the word 'can'. English is such a delightful language.


I prefer French, though I have been away from home so long that I fear I am forgetting the language.
Generally speaking, the more people talk about "being saved," the further away they actually are from true salvation.

~Alex
#2 Total Post Count
User avatar
alextemplet
King Cobra
King Cobra
 
Posts: 5599
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:50 pm
Location: South Louisiana (aka Cajun Country)

Postby greeneye55582 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:51 pm

Uh-oh. Where's Charles?
User avatar
greeneye55582
Garter
Garter
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:52 pm

Postby david23 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:48 pm

Your point about genes responsible for psychological behaviors have been documented in some cases through family studies. The specific gene(s) in question for specific behavior(s) have not been identified. Perhaps this is a good idea of research. I personally would be interested if there was a way or a drug to say... inhibit a particular gene/protein that causes violence and aggression in criminals, it would be great.

As far as causing beliefs in God, no idea.
david23
Coral
Coral
 
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 8:15 am

Postby AstusAleator » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:27 am

I think that no particular DNA sequence codes for such things as anger, fear, aggression, sexuality, etc. I think that there are many factors contributing to the comlexity of human behavior. It is an interesting topic, to be sure.
What did the parasitic Candiru fish say when it finally found a host? - - "Urethra!!"
User avatar
AstusAleator
King Cobra
King Cobra
 
Posts: 1039
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:51 pm
Location: Oregon, USA

Postby mith » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:02 am

Compare bonobos to humans to chimps in terms of aggressiveness.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
~Niebuhr
User avatar
mith
Inland Taipan
Inland Taipan
 
Posts: 5345
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:14 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

Postby alextemplet » Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:37 am

It's not just genetics that determine your nature; training and conditioning can influence that as well. As an ex-Marine, I notice I still have tendencies to respond to certain situations with aggression and violence. The Marine Corps trained me to act that way and it's stayed with me into civilian life.

For most criminals, though, I think a lot of it has to do with how they were brought up and the kind of life they were born into. When I worked as a cable installer, I saw first-hand the horrible conditions in some of the poorer neighborhoods where children quite literally beat up smaller kids simply for amusement. I can understand why an upbringing like that would cause a person to be violent or otherwise prone to crime.
Generally speaking, the more people talk about "being saved," the further away they actually are from true salvation.

~Alex
#2 Total Post Count
User avatar
alextemplet
King Cobra
King Cobra
 
Posts: 5599
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:50 pm
Location: South Louisiana (aka Cajun Country)

Next

Return to Evolution

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests