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Reconciling Faith with Evolution

Discussion of everything related to the Theory of Evolution.

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Postby greeneye55582 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:08 pm

Even logic is removed as they try to re-enforce the message.


Yep, I think of many cruel instances off the top of my head where humanity has removed their logic in the attempt to convert non-believers into believing their is a "creator". Or even attempts to believe in one "creator" over another.

Is Will Power learnt or inherent?


I say learned.
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Postby alextemplet » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:43 pm

Will power is probably learned and practiced; it's basically a skill of self-discipline. Anyone can develop a strong enough will to control their instincts if they so choose and work hard enough at it.

As for whether humans are inherently good or bad, as genovese pointed out it is probably a mixture of both. There's a certain amount of selfishness and greed in all of us, but also a certain amount of charity and compassion.
Generally speaking, the more people talk about "being saved," the further away they actually are from true salvation.

~Alex
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Postby genovese » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:55 am

Thank you for all your inputs.
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Postby cracked_doc » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:30 pm

Genovese you've simply blown me off my feet with your lucid ideas...where did you get this interesting idea in your head from? that it might be encoded and all that...I can almost translate my religion into scientific language:

1 God encoded in our genes to believe on a Super natural power
2 God created the sense of evil and virtue in us
3 God gave us will power
4 God gave us a choice which is not influenced by any direct gene or mechanism; a choice to believe or not
In my whole life things have never been clearer.....Genovese you don't know my religion but still your concepts and ideas match so perfectly to my Beliefs and inner feelings that its incredible

what is the source of this knowledge? If there is a book or something then plz let me know
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Postby genovese » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:22 pm

No cracked_doc, there is no book on this subject that I am aware of. I am simply trying out my ideas on this forum to see the response, hoping not to upset anybody.

Something which gave me the idea that it could all be encoded into our genes is when I thought about the probabilities of events.

I can only speak about the Christian Faith for I have little knowledge about other Faiths, but if we take the 3 most important beliefs which are the foundations of Christianity ie, Birth from a virgin, Son of God, resurrection after death then if these 3 things were to happen to-day in a world popluation of 6.7 Billion the probabiliy of these all happening to one individual would be of the order of 1: 300x10^27. And the fact that there are around 2.4 Billion Believers who are prepared to acept these odds as having happened - never ceases to amaze me. This total acceptence of the improbable, by so many people, made me suspect that a genetic factor could be at work and that perhaps Natural Selection had weeded out the non-believers.
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Postby alextemplet » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:50 am

Genovese, I'm sorry, but those odds are completely and totally bunk. How did you ever come up with that statistic?
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Postby genovese » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:07 am

Well, as I have already mentioned before, I am not very good at Maths but as I understand it:

World Pop = 6.7 Billion.

If Jesus came back to-day and the early Christian claim that he is born of a virgin, then the probably of that being true would be of the order of 1 in 6.7 billion people.

If it was claimed that he was the son of God that would also be of a probability of 1 in 6.7 billion.

If he was said to be resurrected from the dead that would also be of the order of 1 in 6.7 billion.

So if all three happened to one individual in one throw of the dice of the Life of an individual, then you multiply up the individual probabilities to get to the figure of
300x10^27, which funnily enough corresponds to the tonnage weight of the Sun! Combining this information with my probability calculation , it could be said that "I have seen the Light"!

Please tell me where my error is.
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Postby alextemplet » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:27 pm

Your error is that you assume those are all random events; they're not. You can't use statistics like that to argue against something. For example, I could calculate that the odds of my father meeting my mother and making me would be, in a population of six billion, 3.6 x 10^19. This clearly doesn't disprove anything, because here I am.
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Postby genovese » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:14 pm

How do you calculate the chances of these 3 events occurring in the life of one person?
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Postby alextemplet » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:10 pm

Probability doesn't mean anything in this situation because none of it was random. God's plan from the beginning was to manifest Himself in the person of Jesus Christ (The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. ~John 1:14), and to die on the cross and be raised from the dead for the forgiveness of sins. All He needed was a woman pure and virtuous enough to bear the Son of God, and He found her in the Virgin Mary. None of it was random.
Generally speaking, the more people talk about "being saved," the further away they actually are from true salvation.

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Postby extinct » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:16 pm

the odds of ANYTHING at all happening are equally long if we assume that all things have an equal opportunity.
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Postby alextemplet » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:23 pm

extinct wrote:the odds of ANYTHING at all happening are equally long if we assume that all things have an equal opportunity.


Exactly my point.
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